Completionist cape (chaos) rework

[Mike]

I'll just say I'm still not thrilled with the recent updates, but i can recognize you're listening and trying to accomplish something in the best way possible. This is probably the best solution but I'm just slightly confused on one part;

Furthermore, the hitpoints of the Barrelchests will be lowered to 134 (from 450) and they will no longer be immune to poison or venom (so they match their OSRS version). Their droprates will be halved, but their profitability per hour will still remain higher than before because of the major HP decrease.
As for the Lizardman shamans, we will increase their droprates on the Dragon warhammer with 40% (7/10,000 instead of 5/10,000), which should more than compensate for slower kills with the BIS ranged setup.
On the other hand, Skotizo will receive a buff to its defence (but obviously no higher than in OSRS) as the new Twisted bow + Completionist cape (chaos) would otherwise make it much faster to kill than before.


As you can see, with the appropriate defence nerfs, a lot of kills get close to being as fast to kill as before this change. For the few exceptions where kills are quite a bit slower than before in BIS gear (Barrelchests and Lizardman Shamans), we will apply the appropriate changes as stated above to compensate.

I'm confused on barrelchest before and after, is the comparisons performed in the table on the current barrelchest or the proposed barrelchest?

Thanks for listening to the community, sorry for not having faith in ya'll, and this is why pkh is the best rsps

The average DPS on the Barrelchests is unaffected by how many HP they have (whether it be 450, 143 or 10000, you will still deal the same amount of damage per second) . The DPS after the change will be slower than before in BIS ranged gear, so that's why we are massively lowering their HP to match those in OSRS. If you want to know how fast a single Barrelchest will be to kill (in BIS ranged gear) after all these changes are introduced, that would be (450 / 143) * 0.62 = 1.95, or almost twice as fast to kill as before (not taking venom into account). That's why we will be halving their droprates as well.
For all setups that do not use BIS ranged gear (with the chaos comp cape), the DPS will remain about the same and in those cases, the kills will actually be about 450 / 143 = 3.15 or more than 3 times as fast to kill than before (and even when halving their droprates, their profitability will remain higher than before).
I hope that about clears it up, I know it can be quite confusing. Either way, what Brant said about sums it up.

You guys should rather fix hitboxes and pathing, instead of changing long loved item combos.
People need 1k hours to grind that chaos comp, i just dont understand why we shouldnt have the same benefits as we did for a long time.
just buff the tbow and leave anything else how it is.

If I knew of any way to fix the hitboxes, I would have done so a long time ago. My skills with RSPS client development sadly do have their limits, and none of our other developers has managed to tackle this issue yet either. It's not exactly a low priority thing, if anything I would even consider the hitboxes my #1 concern in the whole server. Believe me, I'm the first person to want to have it fixed. There may be a potential solution, but I have no clue how to even get started on it.
It will be fixed someday, of that I'm sure. I just don't know how or when yet.

As for pathing, we have made major improvements on this in the past year. If there are still any pathing-related issues, please do let me know (with all the information we need to reproduce the issue so that we can fix it). I've said it a hundred times before, simply saying "fix pathing" is about as useful as saying "fix your server". I have no idea which pathing issue you are referring to, so if you have any complaints about it, please at least give us the information we need (as was the case about a year ago, when a small number of players gave me the information I needed on a number of pathing issues, after which I fixed them).

In regards to keeping our equipment as it has always been and simply buffing the twisted bow, that would just lead to even more issues in the future. I don't want to just put a bandaid on any new weapon to make it useful in some way (and add new broken items as a result) simply because of one ridiculously overpowered combo. From the looks of it, most people seem to agree with me on that.

[Thearlygamer]

You guys should rather fix hitboxes and pathing, instead of changing long loved item combos.
People need 1k hours to grind that chaos comp, i just dont understand why we shouldnt have the same benefits as we did for a long time.
just buff the tbow and leave anything else how it is.

If you take 1k hrs to comp youre bad also I love bp and chaos comp, but its so obviously broken and I don't want the fix to be more broken content. These countless threads show that Mike isn't taking this lightly and trying to please as many people as he can, but it won't please everyone, and I can't see people who dedicated all this time rage quit cuz they won't do a 50-100 hour grind at CoX for the new BIS

[Iron adam]

very creative, I like it

[Hoard]

Okay. Mike. Please hear me out,

I believe this update is going to have an horribly negative impact on the overall dynamic of Pkhonor. I believe it is going to do so by the following:

1. Current kildcount high scores will be invalid as the process required to kill these boss's will have changed, meaning time, supplies per trip, gear required etc will all be different. This would give the current KC leaders an unfair advantage with some NPC's, and with others, it would make the time spent to receive such a high kildcount worthless as it will now be easier from when they first grinded it.

2. The sheer difference in price per dps ratio with comparison of the T-Bow and bp. With the latest T-Bow to be sold in game going for 500B, we are currently looking at a 100x price increase, yes.. 100x price increase for a mere slightly better weapon. Making the not 500B+ banks of pkhonor's life harder and helping the rich get richer with t-bow dps.

3. This update will affect nearly every single boss in game and mainly only for those who have been playing this server the longest (Comp Caper's), meaning years of growing accustom to the current game. Pre-sets, specific gear and supplies, etc will now have to be changed. (I have never seen such a change in the history of pkhonor and it seems quite off course from everything the game has done thus far.)

4. Any and all personal best times for Cox or ToB will be completely invalid. (This one explains itself)

5. Changing the tic speed of random weapons such as dh axe is an incredibly risky change. Imagine the potential bugs to be abused and found over the next coming month. let alone faster and easier exp which is quite simply unneeded.

I'm sure I could think of more but quite honestly am exhausted and about to knock out. Will edit tomorrow with any of the other plethora of potential things that could go wrong with these changes, and why I believe it is not a change typical of Pkhonor's history over the past decade and an incredibly risky decision.

Thank you,

Hoard / Iron Maniac / Rrt38

[Stale fish1]

Okay. Mike. Please hear me out,

I believe this update is going to have an horribly negative impact on the overall dynamic of Pkhonor. I believe it is going to do so by the following:

1. Current kildcount high scores will be invalid as the process required to kill these boss's will have changed, meaning time, supplies per trip, gear required etc will all be different. This would give the current KC leaders an unfair advantage with some NPC's, and with others, it would make the time spent to receive such a high kildcount worthless as it will now be easier from when they first grinded it.

2. The sheer difference in price per dps ratio with comparison of the T-Bow and bp. With the latest T-Bow to be sold in game going for 500B, we are currently looking at a 100x price increase, yes.. 100x price increase for a mere slightly better weapon. Making the not 500B+ banks of pkhonor's life harder and helping the rich get richer with t-bow dps.

3. This update will affect nearly every single boss in game and mainly only for those who have been playing this server the longest (Comp Caper's), meaning years of growing accustom to the current game. Pre-sets, specific gear and supplies, etc will now have to be changed. (I have never seen such a change in the history of pkhonor and it seems quite off course from everything the game has done thus far.)

4. Any and all personal best times for Cox or Too will be completely invalid. (This one explains itself)

5. Changing the tic speed of random weapons such as dh axe is an incredibly risky change. Imagine the potential bugs to be abused and found over the next coming month. let alone faster and easier exp which is quite simply unneeded.

I'm sure I could think of more but quite honestly am exhausted and about to knock out. Will edit tomorrow with any of the other plethora of potential things that could go wrong with these changes, and why I believe it is not a change typical of Pkhonor's history over the past decade and an incredibly risky decision.

Thank you,

Hoard / Iron Maniac / Rrt38

You realise that this just opens us up for new content to fill the gap right?

Bowfa from Gauntlet
Zbow from nex
anything else that might get added.

pb times don't really matter at the moment since there are no leaderboards.

It will affect them yes, but in a good way.

[Brant]

Spoiler: show

Okay. Mike. Please hear me out,

I believe this update is going to have an horribly negative impact on the overall dynamic of Pkhonor. I believe it is going to do so by the following:

1. Current kildcount high scores will be invalid as the process required to kill these boss's will have changed, meaning time, supplies per trip, gear required etc will all be different. This would give the current KC leaders an unfair advantage with some NPC's, and with others, it would make the time spent to receive such a high kildcount worthless as it will now be easier from when they first grinded it.

2. The sheer difference in price per dps ratio with comparison of the T-Bow and bp. With the latest T-Bow to be sold in game going for 500B, we are currently looking at a 100x price increase, yes.. 100x price increase for a mere slightly better weapon. Making the not 500B+ banks of pkhonor's life harder and helping the rich get richer with t-bow dps.

3. This update will affect nearly every single boss in game and mainly only for those who have been playing this server the longest (Comp Caper's), meaning years of growing accustom to the current game. Pre-sets, specific gear and supplies, etc will now have to be changed. (I have never seen such a change in the history of pkhonor and it seems quite off course from everything the game has done thus far.)

4. Any and all personal best times for Cox or Too will be completely invalid. (This one explains itself)

5. Changing the tic speed of random weapons such as dh axe is an incredibly risky change. Imagine the potential bugs to be abused and found over the next coming month. let alone faster and easier exp which is quite simply unneeded.

I'm sure I could think of more but quite honestly am exhausted and about to knock out. Will edit tomorrow with any of the other plethora of potential things that could go wrong with these changes, and why I believe it is not a change typical of Pkhonor's history over the past decade and an incredibly risky decision.

Thank you,

Hoard / Iron Maniac / Rrt38

1. No one gives a shit about that. I don't know a single person who competes for kc lead on a private server.

2. its good the best weapon in the game ain't like 8b anymore. Weapons should be the most expensive thing to get and currently with BP it's the cheapest gear to get.

3. If this game is going to survive at all your precious chaos comp has to be nerfed. For a lot of the bosses where you don't range it like gwd minus kree, they should be more of the same kill time.

4. Not really a factor in this. Osrs did the same when they nerfed the BP by wiping pb's and giving everything a clean slate.

5. Changing the tick speed of a weapon has literally no chance at producing bugs unless they mess up the main of it and make them hit like 1 tick instead. As for the XP, no one gives a shit about melee xp. If you don't naturally get 2b melee just by killing shit normally and you have to power skill melee then you are doing something wrong.

[The underdog]

I'm fine with this.

Is x%/50% chance of double hit off the table? I mean there's some PB competition downsides to it and the max dps with bp gets hit but other than that it'll combat the underlying problem of the effect being racist to slower weapons. This solution will keep the underlying combat balancing the same. A weapon that's stronger against a boss without chaos cape will also be stronger with chaos cape instead of being outperformed by another weapon that has a now faster attack speed than before.

Chaos cape broke the combat triangle making magic fall behind for example.
We can also re-balance the other comp capes along with this, why do we want 2 meta capes and everything else nearly useless. We can take Balance cape, shadows cape and (un)holy cape and do whatever we like with them. Creating a range cape, creating whatever we want. I'd rather see a custom implementation on custom capes that affect every item in the same way, than to have regular items react differently compared to eachother.

For example:
Make chaos cape an all round option that's best as all round option. (maybe +30% attack speed on any attack style and weapon, 30% chance double hit)
Make balance cape a range cape that brings ranged dps in line with what it is now (just a little bit less) (with for example 50% chance on double hit with range)
Make unholy cape the best melee cape where dps is more than what it is now (50% chance double hit with melee)
Make magic cape a worthwhile option where dps is higher. (add like 40% double hit chance to it to crank up the dps in line with other attack styles)
Keep souls cape as is (remove rapid renewall prayer block while at it coz zzz)
Keep holy cape as the prayer cape (maybe add a passive effect like built in prayer items like bonecrusher, w.e. that prayer neck is doing and a 20% extra prayer points received from prayer pots w.e. shit like that)
Keep fortune cape as is
And have shadows cape get a custom implementation, it currently has an almost unknown niche where the shadow warrior won't give a fuck about the npc's special defence ability's. Like where on glacor glacyte phase you can attack the boss with shadow warrior spec and it'll damage the glacor without killing the glacytes. Can just update that to make it ignore an npc's special defence but only have a chance of doing so with more reliable damage or any other form where it just ignores the special defence. Might need some thinking big or other ideas coz I just made this up on the spot.

[Sgt salty]

This is a great update! It will help allow new content to enter the game! Full support.

[Fe nis]

Future content updates are no longer dead on arrival due to the broken machinegun midgame blowpipe? Good.

Other setups and weapons perform appropriately in the content they should perform appropriately in? Good.

Better balance and continuity for the game going forwards? Wild, crazy, good.

To be completely honest anyone still complaining about this update, in my mind, clearly hasn't read the thread, the only arguments I've seen are composed of either:

1.) "b-b-b-but my machinegun! if i can't kill everything with one preset, what am i going to do?"

or

2.) "now i have to grind harder content to get better equipment? shit game"

Full support.

[Iron ra]

1. No one gives a shit about that. I don't know a single person who competes for kc lead on a private server.

I care