Vote! No replies!

[Diskid]

I believe that before a real discussion can be made to pinpoint and resolve a problem, we have to first come to a common agreement that there is in fact a problem.

A problem we have had recently is that people are proposing solutions to issues, but because there hasn’t been a common consensus that there is a problem, it doesn’t gain traction and gets quite messy. Therefore, by a simple poll asking “Is this a problem?”, we can come to an agreement that there is a problem. Next conversation will be “How bad is the problem”, which introduces minor dialogue. Last conversation is “How do we fix the problem?”, which is when the real heads clash.

So skipping the first problem identification, brings up lots of useless conversation.

I'm in the PkHonor discord right now to let people come in and have this discussion, feel free to join.

There is no discussion to be made until we come to a common agreement that this is either a problem, or it is not. Which simply requires a yes or a no. This is why the poll is not useless to me.

even if a common agreement is made. it really doesn't lead anywhere because in order to determine the severity transparency in individual cases would have to be a given. which i could be wrong, alot of the staff team really doesn't want thier name to be put out there even if the accused agrees to having the logs posted.

While i personally take issue with the idea that a staff members actions should be concealed whether good or bad actions take place. i'm of the opinion as a staff member you are the face of pkhonor, thus your privacy of the actions you do in relation to bans and appeals should be completely gone. as a staff member if you can't stand a choice you made in a certain case, you shouldn't have privacy in that case when you dealing with choices with a game some people have put thousands of hours into. lastly, to make the change above you would have to pay the staff team for thier time, because at that point to most its too much responsibility for the potential backlash if they mess up really badly.

[Uim elon]

I'm in the PkHonor discord right now to let people come in and have this discussion, feel free to join.

There is no discussion to be made until we come to a common agreement that this is either a problem, or it is not. Which simply requires a yes or a no. This is why the poll is not useless to me.

There is no simple yes or no and that's just how it is. You can't expect a complicated problem to be painted by 1 poll with a simple yes or no as the only answer.

I really wish instead of just restating what others stated above, you would read what I stated and formulate your own opinions and statements. I already addressed this in an prior reply.

[Thierryu1]

There is no discussion to be made until we come to a common agreement that this is either a problem, or it is not. Which simply requires a yes or a no. This is why the poll is not useless to me.

There is no simple yes or no and that's just how it is. You can't expect a complicated problem to be painted by 1 poll with a simple yes or no as the only answer.

I really wish instead of just restating what others stated above, you would read what I stated and formulate your own opinions and statements. I already addressed this in an prior reply.

I really just agree with the others here, I don't see what you are worked up about?

[The underdog]

I'm in the PkHonor discord right now to let people come in and have this discussion, feel free to join.

There is no discussion to be made until we come to a common agreement that this is either a problem, or it is not. Which simply requires a yes or a no. This is why the poll is not useless to me.

even if a common agreement is made. it really doesn't lead anywhere because in order to determine the severity transparency in individual cases would have to be a given. which i could be wrong, alot of the staff team really doesn't want thier name to be put out there even if the accused agrees to having the logs posted.

While i personally take issue with the idea that a staff members actions should be concealed whether good or bad actions take place. i'm of the opinion as a staff member you are the face of pkhonor, thus your privacy of the actions you do in relation to bans and appeals should be completely gone. as a staff member if you can't stand a choice you made in a certain case, you shouldn't have privacy in that case when you dealing with choices with a game some people have put thousands of hours into. lastly, to make the change above you would have to pay the staff team for thier time, because at that point to most its too much responsibility for the potential backlash if they mess up really badly.

This is why I hate the report section was changed to be completely 'concealed'. It's like court without a defending party. Should be able to view the evidence provided to be able to put it up for discussion if things should be done that way. Or even prevent you getting punished by putting out of context proof back into context. That's how you can better identity staff favoritism or racism against Juntow. Still better than what other games have I guess.

I like Patels idea of opening it up but hiding names too.

That’s because police don’t issue punishments. They can only charge you with crimes. It’s a judge and a court that issue punishments. And in 99% of cases, it is all made public so not only can it be scrutinized by the public, but it can also be referenced in the future to ensure transparency and balance in the law system. Often times, pressure is exactly what a system needs when it makes a mistake. Look at the case for Cynthia Brown.

That's beside the point. What we're talking about here are cases when someone is breaking a rule/law (for MINOR offences) but the enforcers choose not to charge them. This happens all the time IRL too. And sure, when last week you got a fine for jaywalking and then you see someone else doing it and a cop does nothing it makes you wanna go "omg unfair you have to charge them!" but opening every such decision to public approval is just a horrible idea.

This just shows that we care about different things. I care about the why.....

Why did I get charged and someone else didn’t? Is it because of his race? Is it because of his economic status? Is it because they go bowling on the weekends? Why did we commit the same crime, and I was punished and he wasn’t?

I care about the why.... Same thing ingame. I wonder why some receive punishments and why some do the same thing, and they don’t.

Because you botted as a staff member and others didn't.
/thread

[Uim elon]

That's beside the point. What we're talking about here are cases when someone is breaking a rule/law (for MINOR offences) but the enforcers choose not to charge them. This happens all the time IRL too. And sure, when last week you got a fine for jaywalking and then you see someone else doing it and a cop does nothing it makes you wanna go "omg unfair you have to charge them!" but opening every such decision to public approval is just a horrible idea.

This just shows that we care about different things. I care about the why.....

Why did I get charged and someone else didn’t? Is it because of his race? Is it because of his economic status? Is it because they go bowling on the weekends? Why did we commit the same crime, and I was punished and he wasn’t?

I care about the why.... Same thing ingame. I wonder why some receive punishments and why some do the same thing, and they don’t.

Because you botted as a staff member and others didn't.
/thread

Imagine thinking you know what we are talking about.....

First, I’ve never been staff. Second, we are talking about a hypothetical situation, we are not referring to any ingame occurrences.

But this is why adults don’t invite children to an adult conversation, because children say random stuff with no true context and provide no real meaning to the discussion.

[Mitrovic]

Ultimately this poll is worthless. Asking people to randomly judge if they view favoritism in situations is just a poorly worded question to begin with. Especially knowing that there are people who still, despite being told it's not true a dozen times, claim there's mods abusing their powers to attack them in the wilderness.

We had a private chat about this, but you still don't seem to understand. In summary, there are 2 main problems: the first one is the honor issue, which I ain't gonna elaborate further here, because it has been discussed in other threads and it has nothing to do with your quote.

The second problem: the private off-issue for moderators. The Roddy cc lately has recruited some players of their enemy cc's, so now it's even more a cat and mouse game. Guys like Iron Torso, me, and probably a few others (the 'mice'), have to enter the wilderness in a stealth mode, but it's simply not possible when they have three moderators in their cc who can always see when you are online, despite having private off. We can't play without scouts, then it's just waiting for someone to pass by. On the other side, making use of scouts doesn't help either. I am pretty sure Jeff Bezos has some of my and torso's scouts/alts added. And even if he doesn't, your claim that 'moderators don't abuse their powers to attack someone in the wilderness' can only be 100% guaranteed if his friends list is empty. As a matter of fact, as soon as he adds 1 guy, your claim becomes nothing but a presumption. I agree that regular players actually can see aswell if I have any of my scouts online, but I don't think they will do ::checkratio for like all my 20 scouts every 10 minutes. So as soon as they know one of our scouts is online, they log in with their alts on hotspots, and can kill us easy... No matter which spawners: the multi zone spawners, of course, are no-go zones. The spawner west of magebank is a single zone, and you can make it to the mb lever, but you are tbed by then, and with the dragon spear issue (discussed in other thread aswell) you can actually tb someone forever. For most bosses I try to avoid using spawners, however I'm an iron, but when you have a wildywyrm task, you have to make use of one of these. I tried killing a Wildywyrm several times at locations for regular players, but they don't count for us, even if the ww didn't touch/get touched by any other player yet (I started killing it right when it spawned and no one passed by).

[The underdog]

Ultimately this poll is worthless. Asking people to randomly judge if they view favoritism in situations is just a poorly worded question to begin with. Especially knowing that there are people who still, despite being told it's not true a dozen times, claim there's mods abusing their powers to attack them in the wilderness.

We had a private chat about this, but you still don't seem to understand. In summary, there are 2 main problems: the first one is the honor issue, which I ain't gonna elaborate further here, because it has been discussed in other threads and it has nothing to do with your quote.

The second problem: the private off-issue for moderators. The Roddy cc lately has recruited some players of their enemy cc's, so now it's even more a cat and mouse game. Guys like Iron Torso, me, and probably a few others (the 'mouses'), have to enter the wilderness in a stealth mode, but it's simply not possible when they have three moderators in their cc who can always see when you are online, despite having private off. We can't play without scouts, then it's just waiting for someone to pass by. On the other side, making use of scouts doesn't help either. I am pretty sure Jeff Bezos has some of my and torso's scouts/alts added. And even if he doesn't, your claim that 'moderators don't abuse their powers to attack someone in the wilderness' can only be 100% guaranteed if his friends list is empty. As a matter of fact, as soon as he adds 1 guy, your claim becomes nothing but a presumption. I agree that regular players actually can see aswell if I have any of my scouts online, but I don't think they will do ::checkratio for like all my 20 scouts every 10 minutes. So as soon as they know one of our scouts is online, they log in with their alts on hotspots, and can kill us easy... No matter which spawners: the multi zone spawners, of course, are no-go zones. The spawner west of magebank is a single zone, and you can make it to the mb lever, but you are tbed by then, and with the dragon spear issue (discussed in other thread aswell) you can actually tb someone forever. For most bosses I try to avoid using spawners, however I'm an iron, but when you have a wildywyrm task, you have to make use of one of these. I tried killing a Wildywyrm several times at locations for regular players, but they don't count for us, even if the ww didn't touch/get touched by any other player yet (I started killing it right when it spawned and no one passed by).

You got me to thank for yalls recent deaths, just old school checking ::pvmleaders on my ironman and seeing you and the other 'mouse' race up the venenatis leaderboard. Where would they kill venenatis huh? But good to see you have no clue how we roll, means you got more wildy deaths incoming even if all you say gets changed. If it was nazuths abusing friends list like that you wouldn't have made it that far on my watch in the first place. I'll even dust off my pking skills just to sleep you. The both of you mice pissed off both me and my fellow cat in the past. So you're our personal favorites to pick on today, but still within moral limits. Even though your morales aren't as high going so far to dox Nazuths. But if yall think it's some staff favoritism or something other stupid it's not going to break this cycle. And still, you make what 5b an hour doing what you do in wild and die once every 3 hours for 250m. Boohoo, just don't go wild if you think that's a bad trade or work on your escapes.

[Mitrovic]

You got me to thank for yalls recent deaths, just old school checking ::pvmleaders on my ironman and seeing you and the other 'mouse' race up the venenatis leaderboard. Where would they kill venenatis huh? But good to see you have no clue how we roll, means you got more wildy deaths incoming even if all you say gets changed. If it was nazuths abusing friends list like that you wouldn't have made it that far on my watch in the first place. I'll even dust off my pking skills just to sleep you. The both of you mice pissed off both me and my fellow cat in the past. So you're our personal favorites to pick on today, but still within moral limits. Even though your morales aren't as high going so far to dox Nazuths. But if yall think it's some staff favoritism or something other stupid it's not going to break this cycle. And still, you make what 5b an hour doing what you do in wild and die once every 3 hours for 250m. Boohoo, just don't go wild if you think that's a bad trade or work on your escapes.

You talk like this is going on for just a week, lol. The chat I've had with DJ, is from a couple weeks ago, long before the venenatis event. The leaderboard is indeed an extra way for your cc to check on us, nothing more, nothing less. So this comment is pretty irrelevant. Wondering where this comes from when also a few days ago you even said yourself you are pro-equality in the wilderness. No benefits for moderators.

And by the way: iirc, you didn't catch me once while I was killing venenatis. This week, all during wildywyrms.

[Nazuths]

God, I love these kind of threads.

Gonna be a no for me, I'm the only one showing favoritism, not the rest of the team

[Uim elon]

God, I love these kind of threads.

Gonna be a no for me, I'm the only one showing favoritism, not the rest of the team

I appreciate your honesty, but unfortunately, a team is only as strong as their weakest link. Therefore your flaws reflect across the entire team because you guys are one.