Player Made Deals

[The underdog]

Even though I despise it, this stuff happened before many times for more than a decade with plenty of examples to learn from. As stated there's a player made deals section made for this exact reason. Also a middleman would be convenient to use for these amounts of money. What if a 3rd person randomly kills you, obvious disconnect or something along those lines, money also gone.

It used to be the norm to middleman or at the very least have staff put you on a separate height. Heck even paying afterwards if you trust the person enough. The rules didn't change yet the way to handle the stakes during risk fights did? Well here's the outcome.

I'm still wishing to see a duel preset with whip only and only exact same amounts of money possible which just auto attacks from the start. 50/50 gambling chance for your chance at 100% fair waging stakes against other players. Everything outside of that use common sense but not moderated. Aka as it is, even better with the player made deals section.

[Jumping bug]

There's a player made deals thread precisely for this reason. If you made the conscious decision not to use it, you chose to risk your pixels and waived your right to ask staff to step in and help.

As far as I'm concerned, your loss is from pure negligence. Next time use the appropriate methods to keep your stuff safe.

Stop saying there's nothing to stop scammers from scamming in player made deals. This thread was created for a reason, its not just there for looks. Use it.
viewforum.php?f=138

I don't agree with this. The majority of our players don't use the forums and are completely unaware of these threads and sections. The original intent when we added that section was an added layer of security. It was never meant to completely replace moderation.

Sure in this case, both players involved are active on the forums and know about this section. But I think it sets a bad precedent to give people a free pass unless they posted a thread in this specific section with a specific format.

Then simply the Player made deals thread should be removed or changed. Can't be expecting some to use it but it's fine if others don't.

[Rapsey]

We've had this conversation before so I'm sure most of you know where we stand on this but anyway, to summarize:

This isn't a disagreement about whether there should be legal protection against scams. Everyone agrees there should be. The only thing opinions differ on is what should be covered.

Some are of the opinion that absolutely everything should be subject to legal enforcement. There are no limits, there is no structure. Absolutely anything another player says to you is fair game. If they said anything that wasn't true or misled you in any way, and you have a screenshot, then they should be punished.

Others like myself believe that a legal system which forces people to tell the truth at all times or face punishment, not just within well-defined areas but in all their interactions with other players, is deeply disturbing. That's certainly not how we do things in real life, aside from some of the darkest chapters in our history. This is the stuff of Black Mirror episodes.

So instead of an oppressive system where everything you say is forced to be honest, we have a libertarian opt-in system where two people can choose to enter a legally binding agreement. That way we can have our safety without necessarily turning the server into a hellscape where you can report your neighbour for lying to you or breaking their word.

Of course I also think it's a shame when people still choose to enter into informal, unprotected agreements that rely solely on trust and then get scammed. Of course my moral impulse is also to punish the scumbag. But there's a reason I resist the urge to grab my pitchfork, and I hope I was able to lay it out in this post. Because I don't want to live in a world where I have to be honest at all times or else, and I think neither do most of you.

That being said, I do support taking steps to improve the situation. For example by simplifying the current system and bringing it from the forums to the game. I suspect if setting up your risk fight agreement was as simple as clicking through the duel arena interface, most people would start using it.

[Kalista]

We've had this conversation before so I'm sure most of you know where we stand on this but anyway, to summarize:

This isn't a disagreement about whether there should be legal protection against scams. Everyone agrees there should be. The only thing opinions differ on is what should be covered.

Some are of the opinion that absolutely everything should be subject to legal enforcement. There are no limits, there is no structure. Absolutely anything another player says to you is fair game. If they said anything that wasn't true or misled you in any way, and you have a screenshot, then they should be punished.

Others like myself believe that a legal system which forces people to tell the truth at all times or face punishment, not just within well-defined areas but in all their interactions with other players, is deeply disturbing. That's certainly not how we do things in real life, aside from some of the darkest chapters in our history. This is the stuff of Black Mirror episodes.

So instead of an oppressive system where everything you say is forced to be honest, we have a libertarian opt-in system where two people can choose to enter a legally binding agreement. That way we can have our safety without necessarily turning the server into a hellscape where you can report your neighbour for lying to you or breaking their word.

Of course I also think it's a shame when people still choose to enter into informal, unprotected agreements that rely solely on trust and then get scammed. Of course my moral impulse is also to punish the scumbag. But there's a reason I resist the urge to grab my pitchfork, and I hope I was able to lay it out in this post. Because I don't want to live in a world where I have to be honest at all times or else, and I think neither do most of you.

That being said, I do support taking steps to improve the situation. For example by simplifying the current system and bringing it from the forums to the game. I suspect if setting up your risk fight agreement was as simple as clicking through the duel arena interface, most people would start using it.

I hear what youre saying, but I think theres a difference between being punished for "lying" and punished for maliciously tricking someone else for your own benefit. I would love to live in a world where I'm forced to not maliciously scam people out of their belongings, and I think framing it as being punished for "lying" is misleading.

I don't think its "oppressive" for my actions to have consequences. This is the case in every aspect of life, and in pretty much every other video game than pkhonor. It's a little hyperbolic to say the server will become a hellscape if people are able to report others for blatantly and maliciously scamming money from their peers. In fact, I would argue a server like that would be preferable.

[The underdog]

Yo Rappers can you add that clown emoji, gonna be really useful soon.

[Enron]

We've had this conversation before so I'm sure most of you know where we stand on this but anyway, to summarize:

This isn't a disagreement about whether there should be legal protection against scams. Everyone agrees there should be. The only thing opinions differ on is what should be covered.

Some are of the opinion that absolutely everything should be subject to legal enforcement. There are no limits, there is no structure. Absolutely anything another player says to you is fair game. If they said anything that wasn't true or misled you in any way, and you have a screenshot, then they should be punished.

Others like myself believe that a legal system which forces people to tell the truth at all times or face punishment, not just within well-defined areas but in all their interactions with other players, is deeply disturbing. That's certainly not how we do things in real life, aside from some of the darkest chapters in our history. This is the stuff of Black Mirror episodes.

So instead of an oppressive system where everything you say is forced to be honest, we have a libertarian opt-in system where two people can choose to enter a legally binding agreement. That way we can have our safety without necessarily turning the server into a hellscape where you can report your neighbour for lying to you or breaking their word.

Of course I also think it's a shame when people still choose to enter into informal, unprotected agreements that rely solely on trust and then get scammed. Of course my moral impulse is also to punish the scumbag. But there's a reason I resist the urge to grab my pitchfork, and I hope I was able to lay it out in this post. Because I don't want to live in a world where I have to be honest at all times or else, and I think neither do most of you.

That being said, I do support taking steps to improve the situation. For example by simplifying the current system and bringing it from the forums to the game. I suspect if setting up your risk fight agreement was as simple as clicking through the duel arena interface, most people would start using it.

While I agree with your point of a more lassiez-faire approach, in this particular instance shouldn't a precedent be set? You mention that it's the matter of two individual parties making their own deal but for either you, the admins, or Mike shouldn't there be some form of arbiters in this case and well - if not - then wouldn't it devolve more into anarchy than it does libertarianism? My point is, if action won't be taken I think as the player base it would be in our right to blacklist arrsenic from wildy stake fighting and letting others know that he is a scammer. There should be some bumpers and a framework to an extent because well, why have mods/admins.

[Iron bubble]

We've had this conversation before so I'm sure most of you know where we stand on this but anyway, to summarize:

This isn't a disagreement about whether there should be legal protection against scams. Everyone agrees there should be. The only thing opinions differ on is what should be covered.

Some are of the opinion that absolutely everything should be subject to legal enforcement. There are no limits, there is no structure. Absolutely anything another player says to you is fair game. If they said anything that wasn't true or misled you in any way, and you have a screenshot, then they should be punished.

Others like myself believe that a legal system which forces people to tell the truth at all times or face punishment, not just within well-defined areas but in all their interactions with other players, is deeply disturbing. That's certainly not how we do things in real life, aside from some of the darkest chapters in our history. This is the stuff of Black Mirror episodes.

So instead of an oppressive system where everything you say is forced to be honest, we have a libertarian opt-in system where two people can choose to enter a legally binding agreement. That way we can have our safety without necessarily turning the server into a hellscape where you can report your neighbour for lying to you or breaking their word.

Of course I also think it's a shame when people still choose to enter into informal, unprotected agreements that rely solely on trust and then get scammed. Of course my moral impulse is also to punish the scumbag. But there's a reason I resist the urge to grab my pitchfork, and I hope I was able to lay it out in this post. Because I don't want to live in a world where I have to be honest at all times or else, and I think neither do most of you.

That being said, I do support taking steps to improve the situation. For example by simplifying the current system and bringing it from the forums to the game. I suspect if setting up your risk fight agreement was as simple as clicking through the duel arena interface, most people would start using it.

Perhaps ex-moderators should be held to higher standards because it sets a bad precedent for your newer players.

In any regard, even in the real world there's remedies for people in these kinds of cases, especially if higher authority (in this case staff with logs) can provide legitimacy to claims with evidence that might be available to the average person.

So even if there isn't financial compensation to the plaintiff in this case, you should do something :shrug:, being a higher profile case with an ex-moderator, after a thorough investigation of course.

[Icewallocome]

+1

[Arrsenic]

Spoiler: show

We've had this conversation before so I'm sure most of you know where we stand on this but anyway, to summarize:

This isn't a disagreement about whether there should be legal protection against scams. Everyone agrees there should be. The only thing opinions differ on is what should be covered.

Some are of the opinion that absolutely everything should be subject to legal enforcement. There are no limits, there is no structure. Absolutely anything another player says to you is fair game. If they said anything that wasn't true or misled you in any way, and you have a screenshot, then they should be punished.

Others like myself believe that a legal system which forces people to tell the truth at all times or face punishment, not just within well-defined areas but in all their interactions with other players, is deeply disturbing. That's certainly not how we do things in real life, aside from some of the darkest chapters in our history. This is the stuff of Black Mirror episodes.

So instead of an oppressive system where everything you say is forced to be honest, we have a libertarian opt-in system where two people can choose to enter a legally binding agreement. That way we can have our safety without necessarily turning the server into a hellscape where you can report your neighbour for lying to you or breaking their word.

Of course I also think it's a shame when people still choose to enter into informal, unprotected agreements that rely solely on trust and then get scammed. Of course my moral impulse is also to punish the scumbag. But there's a reason I resist the urge to grab my pitchfork, and I hope I was able to lay it out in this post. Because I don't want to live in a world where I have to be honest at all times or else, and I think neither do most of you.

That being said, I do support taking steps to improve the situation. For example by simplifying the current system and bringing it from the forums to the game. I suspect if setting up your risk fight agreement was as simple as clicking through the duel arena interface, most people would start using it.

While I agree with your point of a more lassiez-faire approach, in this particular instance shouldn't a precedent be set? You mention that it's the matter of two individual parties making their own deal but for either you, the admins, or Mike shouldn't there be some form of arbiters in this case and well - if not - then wouldn't it devolve more into anarchy than it does libertarianism? My point is, if action won't be taken I think as the player base it would be in our right to blacklist arrsenic from wildy stake fighting and letting others know that he is a scammer. There should be some bumpers and a framework to an extent because well, why have mods/admins.
[/quote]

Where are the smoking gun proofs?

Would be non existant words if there was no benefit of hurting me, me being eco got to maintain more players than any of your contribution to pkhonor (which is SOLID ZERO), impressive choice ofwords, used for the sake of nothingness, again and again, who were you 2 weeks ago? nobody, get into a cc = fight their fights at all cost.

Point to prove, why are the players that ive X fought in your cc(assuming they will be most credible for you) saying how I legitmately fought them and lost to them, including this https://streamable.com/mtim4q proof, and countless screenshots of me slapping people, and yes im gonna act cocky and arrogant because you people only respect that type of human, not the human that i wanted to be within this community, ill make sure to keep your lives hell game-wise(you'll never enter Our wilderness without getting slapped) because it brings me and my friends entertainment.

Please keep this post about me as much as you can kind sir :3, ONCE IM NO LONGER THE TOPIC, ill start discussing the more important subject which is the PlayerMadeDeals, The ARCHIVE and Ideas sections SHOWS ENOUGH OF ME (Creditbility to those who doubt my care about this game and contribution), but ive reached the limit of sucking the shit from you, its time I feed you shit.

[Enron]

Spoiler: show

We've had this conversation before so I'm sure most of you know where we stand on this but anyway, to summarize:

This isn't a disagreement about whether there should be legal protection against scams. Everyone agrees there should be. The only thing opinions differ on is what should be covered.

Some are of the opinion that absolutely everything should be subject to legal enforcement. There are no limits, there is no structure. Absolutely anything another player says to you is fair game. If they said anything that wasn't true or misled you in any way, and you have a screenshot, then they should be punished.

Others like myself believe that a legal system which forces people to tell the truth at all times or face punishment, not just within well-defined areas but in all their interactions with other players, is deeply disturbing. That's certainly not how we do things in real life, aside from some of the darkest chapters in our history. This is the stuff of Black Mirror episodes.

So instead of an oppressive system where everything you say is forced to be honest, we have a libertarian opt-in system where two people can choose to enter a legally binding agreement. That way we can have our safety without necessarily turning the server into a hellscape where you can report your neighbour for lying to you or breaking their word.

Of course I also think it's a shame when people still choose to enter into informal, unprotected agreements that rely solely on trust and then get scammed. Of course my moral impulse is also to punish the scumbag. But there's a reason I resist the urge to grab my pitchfork, and I hope I was able to lay it out in this post. Because I don't want to live in a world where I have to be honest at all times or else, and I think neither do most of you.

That being said, I do support taking steps to improve the situation. For example by simplifying the current system and bringing it from the forums to the game. I suspect if setting up your risk fight agreement was as simple as clicking through the duel arena interface, most people would start using it.

While I agree with your point of a more lassiez-faire approach, in this particular instance shouldn't a precedent be set? You mention that it's the matter of two individual parties making their own deal but for either you, the admins, or Mike shouldn't there be some form of arbiters in this case and well - if not - then wouldn't it devolve more into anarchy than it does libertarianism? My point is, if action won't be taken I think as the player base it would be in our right to blacklist arrsenic from wildy stake fighting and letting others know that he is a scammer. There should be some bumpers and a framework to an extent because well, why have mods/admins.

Where are the smoking gun proofs?

Would be non existant words if there was no benefit of hurting me, me being eco got to maintain more players than any of your contribution to pkhonor (which is SOLID ZERO), impressive choice ofwords, used for the sake of nothingness, again and again, who were you 2 weeks ago? nobody, get into a cc = fight their fights at all cost.

Point to prove, why are the players that ive X fought in your cc(assuming they will be most credible for you) saying how I legitmately fought them and lost to them, including this https://streamable.com/mtim4q proof, and countless screenshots of me slapping people, and yes im gonna act cocky and arrogant because you people only respect that type of human, not the human that i wanted to be within this community, ill make sure to keep your lives hell game-wise(you'll never enter Our wilderness without getting slapped) because it brings me and my friends entertainment.

Please keep this post about me as much as you can kind sir :3, ONCE IM NO LONGER THE TOPIC, ill start discussing the more important subject which is the PlayerMadeDeals, The ARCHIVE and Ideas sections SHOWS ENOUGH OF ME (Creditbility to those who doubt my care about this game and contribution), but ive reached the limit of sucking the shit from you, its time I feed you shit.
[/quote]

??? A whole lot of rambling to say absolutely nothing.