Tombs of Amascut discussion thread

[Mike]

With the recent release of the Tombs of Amascut (also known as Raids 3) in OSRS, we are aiming to add this new piece of content into PkHonor very soon. Thankfully, the raid setup looks a lot more like Theatre of Blood than Chambers of Xeric (no randomly generated room layouts, no storage systems or skilling rooms, ...), which means the amount of development time needed to add the new raid will be much closer to how long it took us to add Theatre of Blood than it took us to add the Chambers of Xeric. So that's good news already!

However, there are a few important points of discussion, which we need to settle on before we get started on the actual development. I have been reading up on the OSRS wiki and watching video guides in order to educate myself on the mechanics of this minigame. Based on this information, I have distilled three questions that I believe need to be answered, each of which will have an impact on development time:

• Should there be entry requirements for the Tombs of Amascut? In OSRS, you need to complete a quest (Beneath Cursed Sands), which has a couple of minimum skill requirements, along with having to solve some puzzles and beating two bosses.
• Should we only add the bosses themselves, or also the puzzle rooms before each boss fight?
• Should we add the invocation system on release, or is this something we can add later?

For those who don't know what invocations are: this system allows players to customise several aspects of the raids, choosing to enable a large number of raid-wide and/or boss-specific mechanics that make the raid more challenging, while increasing the rewards you get at the end. This system allows a much wider range of players to access this content, anywhere from casual players looking for less of a challenge (no invocations), to people who want to challenge themselves by enabling as many invocations as possible to make the raid a huge challenge. It's important to balance the rewards accordingly, as there has been some frustration from OSRS players who believe that the added rewards aren't worth the difficulty or absolute pain that some of the invocations bring, so we may have to make some of our own choices to do even better than OSRS in this regard.

Invocations shouldn't be too much hassle to add, but this is something we can easily add after the initial release (similar to how we added challenge mode to the Chambers of Xeric a short while after the initial release). Adding our own custom quest as requirement to enter will obviously take some time to add, but if we choose not to add this, we can't really add one later either.
As for puzzle rooms, this will also take some time to implement (some rooms will take longer than others), but if we choose to add them later, we will have to rebalance the rewards and reset the fastest completion times when the puzzle rooms are added (if we choose to add fastest completion times on release).

If you have any input or suggestions about this new content, please let us know. The more input, the better. Once there is some consensus among our community on how to approach this new major piece of content, we can get started with the actual implementation.

[Tom061202]

Voted for puzzle rooms and invocations from release, but if adding them later makes raids 3 come out faster, I'm all for it! Other than that, same as OSRS imo.

Ideas on the new items (rewards from ToA):

Osmumten's fang should become BIS at corp and have a slightly better stab bonus than Hasta.

Tumeken's shadow COULD autocast spell book spells I guess, which it can't on OSRS (don't see why not), but I wouldn't mind if it couldn't autocast. It also should be non-PVP weapon like it is the case in OSRS (Unless it's used at Castle Wars).

Elidinis' ward should, like osrs, have less magic attack bonus than arcane, but with better magic Strength. The Elidinis' ward (F) should be better though 100%. *** Adjustment I would suggest for making the fortified version is for the process to require adding the arcane sigil and 100k souls runes to the Elidinis' ward instead of only 10k souls runes like osrs. ***

Now the Masori armour. In Osrs it has become the best ranging armour and the best mage defense bonus armour. However, on there, armadyl was BIS before Tombs of Amascut. On here, as we all know, Pernix is the better armour. In my opinion, there are 2 options to opt for in this case:

Spoiler: show

1. Make it noticeably better than Pernix, the stats being the same on the regular AND fortified version. (In OSRS, both regular and fortified Masori have the same stats)
2. Make it only slightly better than Pernix for the regular version of the armour and noticeably better for the fortified version.

*This implies you can use a chisel on a piece of armadyl armour to make it an armadylean plate following the update.

I think it should require, if option 1 is implemented, one plate to fortify the mask, four for the body and 3 for the chaps (Cutting the Armadyl helmet gives one plate, the chestplate gives four, and the chainskirt gives three). If the fortified armour has added bonuses, it could take double/triple the armadylean plates OR something like 10 ancient repair kits per piece on top of the armadylean plates?!

Lightbearer should be the same as OSRS, regenerating special attack energy twice as fast when worn which would make it better than the ring of vigour we have which saves 10% on specs when worn.

[Fe grim]

Whatever gets it out fastest, would personally like a quest to unlock just for some new content but that might be an unpopular opinion

[Brant]

I wouldn't mind a quest that combined all three of the raids together and all of them were locked behind that quest sort of how nex is

[Fungamer]

I wouldn't mind a quest that combined all three of the raids together and all of them were locked behind that quest sort of how nex is

No support. Quests are kinda lame on pkh and are more a task list than feeling like "oh I need to help this dude out". Can't blame the devs because we simply dont have any real writers maintaining actual lore of the game.

Also, if a noob wants to go raid 5min after getting void, let them. Raids 3 would be a massive selling point for the server and I know if I was a new player searching for a RSPS with all raids but they had it locked behind custom quests I'd move on to another server. And before anyone says it: No, this is not about being handed everything on a silver platter. This is about the fact that we're on a RSPS and why we're not completing RFD to wear barrows gloves on here.

I'd just implement the raid itself as it is on OSRS. No need to change things to make them harder or easier (yet). We can get more customized raids and modes once we have a copy of what is on OSRS. That way you guys can diverge from OSRS and everyone can actually understand what is being changed from the original. Don't even develop with custom stuff in mind. Let us have the same like OSRS and then stuff like invocations can be changed based on community feedback.

Also, don't even bother taking the 1min-2hours to add skill reqs when entering any raid. Let some level 3/1 leech and get a drop, its a challenge by itself & who cares lmao



Edit: For Missouri/Mississippi/Macarena armor, I like what @Tom061202 had to say. It should be what third age druidic and/or (twisted) ancestral is to virtus. It should be a clear upgrade. No going " well akshually the calculator shows that it gives you a 0.1% better defense bonus against bosses you use ranged against"
Powercreep is bad but so are items that are barely worth the cost and/or effort for the tiny stat increase.

[Mike]

Raids 3 would be a massive selling point for the server and I know if I was a new player searching for a RSPS with all raids but they had it locked behind custom quests I'd move on to another server. And before anyone says it: No, this is not about being handed everything on a silver platter. This is about the fact that we're on a RSPS and why we're not completing RFD to wear barrows gloves on here.

That's also what I was initially thinking. Having access to these raids right from the get-go would be a good selling point for us as an RSPS. It took a long time to add Chambers of Xeric after it was added in OSRS (we did a far better job with ToB on that) and being one of the first and only RSPS with raids 3, without it being locked behind something like a quest, would probably be quite a plus for PkHonor. I still want to leave the option open to require a quest for it, but I'm not too sure about it (not to mention we would also need to add a quest which further delays the release of this new content).

Edit: For Missouri/Mississippi/Macarena armor, I like what @Tom061202 had to say. It should be what third age druidic and/or (twisted) ancestral is to virtus. It should be a clear upgrade. No going " well akshually the calculator shows that it gives you a 0.1% better defense bonus against bosses you use ranged against"
Powercreep is bad but so are items that are barely worth the cost and/or effort for the tiny stat increase.

I haven't given much thought to this yet, that's something we'll have to settle on in the later stages of development. But it's good to brainstorm on what to do with it already.

Thank you for the feedback everyone, please keep it coming!

[Korasi2]

Voted no for the puzzle rooms, those rooms become to ez and boring. Nothing but a time waste to add time to the overall raid to manage the amount of uniques coming in to the game easier. (maybe make the puzzle rooms an invocation for the people that want to do puzzle rooms).

[Respire1337]

I want to be mean and say don't do this, focus on QoL and other balancing and fixing older bugs on older raids instead of doing this.

But I won't be mean and I'll say nothing.

[Fungamer]

Raids 3 would be a massive selling point for the server and I know if I was a new player searching for a RSPS with all raids but they had it locked behind custom quests I'd move on to another server. And before anyone says it: No, this is not about being handed everything on a silver platter. This is about the fact that we're on a RSPS and why we're not completing RFD to wear barrows gloves on here.

That's also what I was initially thinking. Having access to these raids right from the get-go would be a good selling point for us as an RSPS. It took a long time to add Chambers of Xeric after it was added in OSRS (we did a far better job with ToB on that) and being one of the first and only RSPS with raids 3, without it being locked behind something like a quest, would probably be quite a plus for PkHonor. I still want to leave the option open to require a quest for it, but I'm not too sure about it (not to mention we would also need to add a quest which further delays the release of this new content).

Perhaps a quest can be released later once Raids 3 itself has gone live. This quest could unlock (and release with) the more custom invocations and what not. Maybe even unlocking a whole new approach to the raid itself. I'd definitely be willing to sit down and write the storyline and tasks for this quest if you and the other devs lack inspiration or just cba!

Edit: But of course, I would like to see the normal invocations in the game first, the custom ones are the ones that should be added later

[Stale fish1]

Invocations need to be added on release.

If u don't add them the raid is way to easy and will cause far too many drops to come into the game.

Unless you do it like osrs with there been a very very rare drop chance with a raid lvl of 0?