Inflation

[Raj]

I agree with everything Rapsey said. As an end-gamer with every item I want\need, I don't place any value in cash because it is essentially useless. It does nothing but sit in my loot tab, until I decide I wanna buy a bunch of stuff that I already own, or gift to someone who needs things. I think a lot of us are like that. I think a GE tax would sort of work, but it might ultimately just make people use the GE less and merch via trading instead, which I suppose is fine since it would take a lot more time and effort to make GP.

The idea of a semi-useless money sink would be great, as long as it's something enticing that will actually be used. Even so, will that really solve the issue of our item inflation? I'm not sure, since people are accustomed to paying these prices, even though, as Rapsey said, there are more items in game now. A major cash sink MAY level them back down to where it doesn't feel as big a gap to a newer player, but it also may only impact the top 10%-20% of players, and not really do anything for the ones that are struggling.

See viewtopic.php?f=73&t=83849&start=10#p743195

[Fungamer]

• Create non-essential things that require loads of cash, things that veterans want but newcomers don't need at all

Maybe make a well of goodwill that will do action X when amount Y is donated, this will have low rate of dropping a non-essential item. If you can diversify the item once in a while (when it has been dropped like 5 times to keep it unique or smt like that) you can keep in interesting.

This will be a money sink with some RNG into it.

Maybe a sort of server-wide "battlepass"-ish system? We would get a roadmap of untradeable(?) cosmetic items which every account will get, as long as the server has dropped enough GP into the well within a certain timeframe.

These cosmetics would be things that aren't really suitable for events but aren't worth forking over $500 (or the equivalent in credits) for either during an ultra rare sale. This type of event could happen every 6 months, yearly or just when the eco isn't doing that well like now.

Just an example, amount needed & specific items could obviously be altered, but I'd personally like to see big jumps so we don't eventually run out of items either:

Code: Select all

500B - Balloons
1T - Pink elegant set
2.5T - Satchel
5T - Yoyo
7.5T - Gadder Hammer
12.5T - Bag of Bones
25T - Barrows Partyhat (-> Final goal would have an awesome item, but would be hard to reach unless the rich hoarders decide to drop some fat stacks)

[Mvpranger]

Code: Select all

500B - Balloons
1T - Pink elegant set
2.5T - Satchel
5T - Yoyo
7.5T - Gadder Hammer
12.5T - Bag of Bones
25T - Barrows Partyhat (-> Final goal would have an awesome item, but would be hard to reach unless the rich hoarders decide to drop some fat stacks)

Yhea, or some cool xp or drop bonuses with a x amount of money donated. At least the scarf should be the reward after 1Mil donated )

[Fungamer]

Code: Select all

500B - Balloons
1T - Pink elegant set
2.5T - Satchel
5T - Yoyo
7.5T - Gadder Hammer
12.5T - Bag of Bones
25T - Barrows Partyhat (-> Final goal would have an awesome item, but would be hard to reach unless the rich hoarders decide to drop some fat stacks)

Yhea, or some cool xp or drop bonuses with a x amount of money donated. At least the scarf should be the reward after 1Mil donated )

1M...?

This isn't about credits btw. It's about GP.

[Thearlygamer]

Now I don’t know a single solution to all this, but I think something(s) should be done and would like to get everyone’s input.

It's a complex issue but I think it boils down to a few simple realities:

The only way item prices go down is if people sell items below market value, and the only reason anyone ever does this is because they need (or would rather have) cash. This rarely happens nowadays because:

• People don't need cash. There aren't many things you actually need cash for and they cost peanuts compared to people's wealth. They also don't scale with the increasing wealth so these money sinks become even less effective over time. The cash people get from various sources like alchables and merching is more than enough to cover any cash needs, there's rarely ever a need to convert your belongings into cash.
• People don't want cash, because having your wealth in items means your bank value goes up by itself and keeps up with the inflation. Having your wealth in cash means the number stays the same and you fall behind. It's pretty much the worst way of storing your money as long as prices keep going up.
• People don't need cash, because thanks to the miracle that is the ::wealth command your vast hoard of items functions like a cash stack. No need for a giant stack of tickets to know for yourself (or prove to others) that your net worth is in the trillions. You can have the best of both worlds: all the convenience of having every item you could possibly need (making you not dependent on the eco), a "cash stack" that keeps growing by itself plus a nice numeric overview that lets you see your items as if they were a giant stack of cash.

You might be seeing a pattern here.

I actually think this was the reason the eco was much better back then, since a lot of our current dedicated players, were more new trying to get 2b construction and prayer which lead to these money makers being viable and them spending all the cash they had to do this. We could either get an influx of players who also want to spend all their money on skills, or we need to work with what we have and do as you said by creating another form of a money sink that actually requires GP and people would want to do.

But the best solution I can think of right now is:

• Create non-essential things that require loads of cash, things that veterans want but newcomers don't need at all
• Get rid of the ::wealth command, or change it to use alch values

I have a love/hate relationship with the ::wealth command since it shows my current wealth to be 400b when I can't afford a single nex piece unless I sell my custom whip, this could be because I have an untradable magic stone. I wouldn't mind integrating it into the bank screen showing how much each tab is worth, this actually is very helpful when trying to find what is making your bank pricey, or what you can get rid of when you need the cash (similar to how OSRS has it currently).

I think a non-essential thing that requires a lot of cash can work, maybe something like Raj suggested with depletable status's, as Thoby suggested with an Ultra Rare sales as GP for an alternative, maybe adding a new skilling method that requires a lot of cash but makes whatever skill we choose slightly faster (or a new skill ), or possibly for a short while have a lot more pvm events which would probably not solve the problem long term but will at least delay it from getting worse while we can think of and implement a first step towards fixing the eco.

Whatever route we decide to go I just think taking the first step is important to not drag it out and let the problem get worse, although I understand not wanting to just throw shit at the wall to see what sticks with a 11 year reputation on the line.

[Rapsey]

I personally prefer the first one of those things over the second one, only because OSRS also offers wealth checks of sorts and their economy seems to be doing relatively ok with it, although they also have major sinks that we don't so maybe not the best comparison but still worth mentioning

Depends on what you call "relatively ok". The inflation of the BIS item prices on OSRS is greater than ours lol. There was a time when a BIS melee set cost you 6m, now it's like... 250m? Ghrazi rapier alone has gone from ~92m to the current 121.8m in the past 6 months. DWH has gone from 22.9m to 46.7m in the past 2 months lol. So if we're comparing the inflation of the best gear and considering this inflation to be a bad thing, then their economy is way worse than ours.

Of course this is OSRS vs RSPS so there are some key differences. On OSRS it's considered normal that a new player has to nolife for many months or even a year before they can afford the very best gear, whereas on an RSPS it's considered an issue if new players can't get it within like, a week maybe? And on OSRS the percentage of players who have obtained all the items they want is tiny, so there's still a vast majority that needs money for something, encouraging people to sell stuff. On here the majority already has everything they want because again, it's an RSPS so it's expected that you can get all those things in a matter of weeks.

Because of the inherent difference in expectations they don't have the hoarding problem that we do, so I don't think it's very relevant to draw comparisons.

The idea of a semi-useless money sink would be great, as long as it's something enticing that will actually be used. Even so, will that really solve the issue of our item inflation?

Solve it? No, I don't think anything can. All you can do is delay it. Eventually people will reach a point where they have everything there is, that's inevitable. And at that point the only reason to sell anything is if you can do it above market value to increase your overall wealth, thus driving up the prices perpetually.

For the record this is the reason why extra bank slots were made so expensive. They seemed an ideal choice for rich veterans to sink a lot of cash into, and we were planning to do the same with G.E. slots, friends list size increases and other such conveniences that new players can do without. Unfortunately this didn't really work. As it turns out most players would rather have a big wealth number (even if it's useless) than spend some of that wealth to max out their account in every way.

I have mentioned it before, but it would be great for the economy if the ultra rare sales would require a large amount of cash instead of donator credits. Maybe not even all ultra rare sales, but just one or a few (although that would really help with the donator statuses being these insane prices).

It could be a simple gp value, or some form of a bidding system where players have an unknown/random/set amount of time to bid against each other to acquire new ultra rares. This could definitely get rid of a few trill from the economy.

To be brutally honest, if there's one thing the server needs even more desperately than cash spending it's donation spending. A suboptimal economy is still better than no economy at all.

I don't see how this would be better anyway. Right now the rich veterans who want to buy ultra-rares are sending their cash to donators instead of to an in-game shop. Yes, the cash isn't leaving the game, but that's not the primary goal here. The goal is to offer rich veterans something they will want to spend a large amount of cash for, which will hopefully make them sell off a portion of their hoard and encourage some competition among sellers to drive down prices. It doesn't really matter if that money goes towards poorer players or into a black hole.

I also don't think this would actually bring down the price of statuses.

Maybe make a well of goodwill that will do action X when amount Y is donated, this will have low rate of dropping a non-essential item. If you can diversify the item once in a while (when it has been dropped like 5 times to keep it unique or smt like that) you can keep in interesting.

This will be a money sink with some RNG into it.

Isn't that just ultra-rares but with RNG and without helping the server pay its bills?

I know, the money doesn't disappear, but I still think that money disappearing isn't as important as getting rich people to spend money. Besides, donators ultimately want cash for their $$ and if they can't get the cash of rich veterans by selling credits or donator items to them, we would be forced to spawn new cash through the donator shop. Then your new money sink is completely negated. I think it's better not to spawn in new cash and have donators get the cash that's already in the game.

Maybe a sort of server-wide "battlepass"-ish system?

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

If you ask me, the whole battlepass / season pass thing is a blight on the gaming industry and we would all be better off if it was eradicated.

[The underdog]

• Create non-essential things that require loads of cash, things that veterans want but newcomers don't need at all

Maybe make a well of goodwill that will do action X when amount Y is donated, this will have low rate of dropping a non-essential item. If you can diversify the item once in a while (when it has been dropped like 5 times to keep it unique or smt like that) you can keep in interesting.

This will be a money sink with some RNG into it.

Well of goodwill for Juntows unban
Well of goodwill for #capestopresets2k18

So you're telling me item prices go up too much, but you can't afford them because money makers stay behind. Then go obtain whatever is valued crazy high and if that's not worth doing still, sell for more. Eco is in a surprisingly good state still given the tremendous wealth with few players.

[Fungamer]

Maybe a sort of server-wide "battlepass"-ish system?

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

If you ask me, the whole battlepass / season pass thing is a blight on the gaming industry and we would all be better off if it was eradicated.

Community goals. Call them whatever. It wouldn't actually be like a battlepass that you need to buy with irl $, it's just the word I know that comes closest to it. Community dumps x amount of gp, everyone gets rewards.

[Thearlygamer]

For the record this is the reason why extra bank slots were made so expensive. They seemed an ideal choice for rich veterans to sink a lot of cash into, and we were planning to do the same with G.E. slots, friends list size increases and other such conveniences that new players can do without. Unfortunately this didn't really work. As it turns out most players would rather have a big wealth number (even if it's useless) than spend some of that wealth to max out their account in every way.

I think doing this for G.E. slots would be a massive help when trying to add items to the eco. I would assume most wealthy players have most their G.E. slots full (whether to merch or trying to get rare items), it just isn't worth for them to put in a 2b bandos chesplate when they're trying to sell a 60b perfect ring. If they're allowed more slots than they need then maybe they'd be more willing to sell off some items, or the opposite happens and they use those to do further merches which increases the price of the items in the long term.

So you're telling me item prices go up too much, but you can't afford them because money makers stay behind. Then go obtain whatever is valued crazy high and if that's not worth doing still, sell for more. Eco is in a surprisingly good state still given the tremendous wealth with few players.

Easier said then done for end game players with comps, but most new players trying to afford donator/premium status or any gear/weapons will get crashed more than not by some chad in max gear trying to get 2b slayer or perk unlocks. Not saying it's impossible, but I'd think its more of a headache for a new player trying our server than it's worth

[The underdog]

Permanent g.e. Slots hype.