scammers and loop holes

[Thearlygamer]

First of all, this thread was simply created to deal with the current player-made deal situation. I'm unsure why in every thread you have to include the specific Arrsenic situation.

This comment shows how out of touch you are with this situation considering the only reason I made this thread is because of the Arrsenic ordeal, the Arresnic situation is very relevant to the topic at hand and is a great use for an example when looking for one.

Sure he's hot topic now but I feel like he's already had enough shit from everyone, can we maybe stop dragging him through the mud time and time again when he's not even the main subject?

No we can't, or at least I can't, since them having to return what wasn't properly theirs to begin with isn't a punishment at all, nor is him being embarassed for what he did because in all honesty he tried to cover it up to save his own ass and that's even worse. I don't like that you're trying to down play what happened here that a mod tricked a player while being part of the deal, tried to tell the player "he should of asked to check ip" and then wants to say it was somehow an accident or "misunderstanding" lol, he really understood when it came to replying to his pm trying to loophole himself out of the situation, like is that really what y'all are going with to move on from this situation? Obviously the vote count and backlash speaks enough for the player base. Personally do I want Arresnic banned? No, everyone whos done good can be redeemed, but I don't agree with him staying a staff member when a lot of players have already lost their trust in him. This isn't the end of the world and he can always reapply at a later date, but I don't agree that he should stay a mod after this.

It prevents people from lending out 20 druidic sets to 20 players and then just expect all 20 sets to return safely to the owner. And if they don't get returned, the Staff team will be expected to go through all cases and make sure the set is returned.. I don't think we should be awarding carelessness with our effort in solving the situation. In my opinion, you shouldn't blatanly trust any person you come across.

Again trying to use over exaggerations to make it sound like such an impossible task. Oh and sure lets go to blaming the player who was scammed by a mod for 'carelessly' putting trust in a MOD. This is why I said I agreed with Patel that there should be plyability when it comes to issues like these, but when it's clear cut then there should be punishment not just giving up because you think you can't act on an unfair system. Again I've said from the beginning that the situation has to be so blatently obvious or enough proof has to be provided and then staff should act, I'm not saying these exaggerated scenarios that has never happened in the 13 years PkH has been active for you to make up on.

If you're that gullible you should 100% stay away from the G.E on OSRS. There's dozens of scam bots that promise you a great deal but we all know what really happens... Surely no one here would fall for any of these bots. I think the general statement if you don't wanna put in the effort to be careful or take 1 minute to fill out the PMD thread on the Forums, then why should we put all our efforts into resolving your situation.

That 'then why should we', like bruh you're a mod maybe that's why tf? lol what a shitty way to see how you're looking out for the community...
Also I like how you use an example that's clearly bannable by OSRS standards as an excuse as to why no punishment isn't given on PkHonor makes sense... And like I said before we're all aware that the majority of players don't bother to visit our forums let alone learn how to make a PMD post before every stake, risk fight, or any deal at that, but that doesn't mean they should get scammed and watch the scammer walk free with their things just because mods won't do anything even if theres 100% proof on what happened.

Both sides are taking this to an extreme.

On one side, we have people argue that staff needs to take care of every scam related issue for us since it's their job, demote and punish Arrsenic, redo the entire PMD process to make it more in favor for the community, stop avoiding issues just because it wasn't officiated in a forum post, and to stop loopholing shenanigans in its entirety.

I read this like 4x and can't see how asking staff to take care of scam related issues, not partake in trying to pull a fast one on their community, then trying to cover it up, and redoing a system that obviously has the community tilted is an extreme


EDIT: I'd like to also point out that no ones brought up if Arrsenic was the one who supplied Roddy with the 450b to do that stake to begin with, I don't know if staff has looked into it at all but considering how much they want to move on from this I have doubts. Either way them deceiving and trying to cover up the whole thing is already bad enough, but this detail would just be another nail to getting this whole thing situated. Of course staff probably won't release what they find, but they could mention if they've at least looked into this.

[Fungamer]

That 'then why should we', like bruh you're a mod maybe that's why tf? lol what a shitty way to see how you're looking out for the community...

Ngl that one specific thing that nazuths said left an extremely bad taste in my mouth and I'm just gonna say the following.

Mods are allowed to have fun playing the game too and shouldn't be busy doing mod stuff all the time since they're not in highschool anymore like we used to be.
BUT. You become a moderator voluntarily. And there's still fulfillment or enjoyment to be gotten by doing mod work (at least, I enjoyed it myself back in the days). You're working to maintain and keep something you care about and love safe.

If, for any reason, a staff member(s) doesn't get enjoyment out of this and rather dislikes fulfilling their role within PKH, then that's an issue with the individual(s) themselves and it shouldn't mean the bar of what a moderator has to do should be lowered to the servers detriment.

In other words, and this isn't to anyone in particular but, if you don't like performing the duties you've signed up for, take a LOA or resign entirely. Don't drag the rest of the server and staff team down because you don't want to do what you signed up to do. It's not a scandal to say "damn I dont like this position, I want to be a player again".
Also, don't torture yourself by forcing yourself to do things you don't want to do. Or is the convenience of teleporting around easily, having no yell cooldown and having a sense of authority due to a crown next to your name so important to you?

I think that's something many staff members need to ask and be honest about, at least towards themselves. If the answer is "no, i enjoy moderating, I'm having fun" then that's great. If the answer is "well yea i like the perks of being a mod but not the duties" then.... Yeah...

[Nazuths]

First of all, this thread was simply created to deal with the current player-made deal situation. I'm unsure why in every thread you have to include the specific Arrsenic situation.

This comment shows how out of touch you are with this situation considering the only reason I made this thread is because of the Arrsenic ordeal, the Arresnic situation is very relevant to the topic at hand and is a great use for an example when looking for one.

Patel was rambling about how nothing was done about Arrsenic, this discussion asks for a vote for change in the way these situations are handled. These things are unrelated to each other. This discussion/vote is used for the future, Patel is talking about the past and how it wasn't handled the way he wanted. So I would definitely say what Patel said was unrelated to the original topic.

Sure he's hot topic now but I feel like he's already had enough shit from everyone, can we maybe stop dragging him through the mud time and time again when he's not even the main subject?

No we can't, or at least I can't, since them having to return what wasn't properly theirs to begin with isn't a punishment at all, nor is him being embarassed for what he did because in all honesty he tried to cover it up to save his own ass and that's even worse. I don't like that you're trying to down play what happened here that a mod tricked a player while being part of the deal, tried to tell the player "he should of asked to check ip" and then wants to say it was somehow an accident or "misunderstanding" lol, he really understood when it came to replying to his pm trying to loophole himself out of the situation, like is that really what y'all are going with to move on from this situation? Obviously the vote count and backlash speaks enough for the player base. Personally do I want Arresnic banned? No, everyone whos done good can be redeemed, but I don't agree with him staying a staff member when a lot of players have already lost their trust in him. This isn't the end of the world and he can always reapply at a later date, but I don't agree that he should stay a mod after this.

Hmm.. It makes me wonder what exactly the purpose of this thread is if it's gonna be the exact same content as the previous one. Could've just asked Will Be Ok to add in a poll with the same questions if we're not gonna move past this point and only focus on what Arrsenic has exactly done. I figured now that we've had the public crucification of Arrsenic and his character, I thought we'd move on and constructively work together on finding a solution that works for everyone. But it seems like people are still after a witchhunt and won't rest till either Arrsenic resigns or he gets demoted. Obviously I don't expect people to just forget and forgive but come on ..

It prevents people from lending out 20 druidic sets to 20 players and then just expect all 20 sets to return safely to the owner. And if they don't get returned, the Staff team will be expected to go through all cases and make sure the set is returned.. I don't think we should be awarding carelessness with our effort in solving the situation. In my opinion, you shouldn't blatanly trust any person you come across.

Again trying to use over exaggerations to make it sound like such an impossible task. Oh and sure lets go to blaming the player who was scammed by a mod for 'carelessly' putting trust in a MOD. This is why I said I agreed with Patel that there should be plyability when it comes to issues like these, but when it's clear cut then there should be punishment not just giving up because you think you can't act on an unfair system. Again I've said from the beginning that the situation has to be so blatently obvious or enough proof has to be provided and then staff should act, I'm not saying these exaggerated scenarios that has never happened in the 13 years PkH has been active for you to make up on.

Whether it's 1 person lending out 20 sets or 20 persons lending out 1 set each, it's the same idea, can be any other item. I just think it'll stack up fairly quick considering how fairly often we're confronted with these kind of reports\complaints

If you're that gullible you should 100% stay away from the G.E on OSRS. There's dozens of scam bots that promise you a great deal but we all know what really happens... Surely no one here would fall for any of these bots. I think the general statement if you don't wanna put in the effort to be careful or take 1 minute to fill out the PMD thread on the Forums, then why should we put all our efforts into resolving your situation.

That 'then why should we', like bruh you're a mod maybe that's why tf? lol what a shitty way to see how you're looking out for the community...
Also I like how you use an example that's clearly bannable by OSRS standards as an excuse as to why no punishment isn't given on PkHonor makes sense... And like I said before we're all aware that the majority of players don't bother to visit our forums let alone learn how to make a PMD post before every stake, risk fight, or any deal at that, but that doesn't mean they should get scammed and watch the scammer walk free with their things just because mods won't do anything even if theres 100% proof on what happened.

That's like saying I am forced to give someone 50M or lend someone a clue item because I am a Moderator. You don't wanna do that for a new player? What the fuck kind of Moderator are you ... Disgusting and ridiculous! You are forced to do anything for a player to satisfy them... No. I execute my duties based on the way I was trained as a Moderator and the rules prescribed to us. If the rules change and "scamming" in this exact context becomes something enforcable for us Moderators then obviously I will go and do that lmfao. I just don't feel like this "scamming" personally should be in our task description. That's what I meant.

And yes, I do actually help players and I'm not an evil person tbh so relacc with the comments on that.. I have many vouches for myself

Anyways I'm gonna withhold from responding further about this entire drama witchhunt scheme thing or whatever you like to call it. I'm gonna trust the judgement of higher ups on this one if they want my input they'll get it but I feel like this entire thing only derails into having another chance at crucifying Arrsenic and I'm not gonna be a part of that.

- CESARE NAZUTHS OUT.

[Thearlygamer]

Obviously I don't expect people to just forget and forgive but come on ..

Really? lol cuz this comment down here really sounds like you want people to forgive and forget as if it didn't happen just this week. What a surprise that people want to see a mod punished for doing things mods should know not to do...

Hmm.. It makes me wonder what exactly the purpose of this thread is if it's gonna be the exact same content as the previous one. Could've just asked Will Be Ok to add in a poll with the same questions if we're not gonna move past this point and only focus on what Arrsenic has exactly done. I figured now that we've had the public crucification of Arrsenic and his character, I thought we'd move on and constructively work together on finding a solution that works for everyone. But it seems like people are still after a witchhunt and won't rest till either Arrsenic resigns or he gets demoted

Obviously Will Be Ok didn't add the question and the thread expanded to 24 pages since then, so sure I felt it necessary to start a discussion, but stop trying to downplay it all just because you want us to move on from Arrsenic being brought up in the whole reason this discussion started. Sure I'd like to find a solution to all this, but I won't stop bringing up what started this whole discussion just because it makes you, Arrsenic, or anyone else uncomfortable those are usually the topics that need to get aired out the most.

Whether it's 1 person lending out 20 sets or 20 persons lending out 1 set each, it's the same idea, can be any other item. I just think it'll stack up fairly quick considering how fairly often we're confronted with these kind of reports\complaints

Damn poor you for having to deal with players reports/complaints as a mod what a drag?.. As stated before and I'll repeat myself since no one seems to be picking up on this. I think scammers should be punished with proper proof. I don't see how hard that is to comprehend. Lots of reports coming in (with ~100 players on at a time) maybe we should look for more qualified staff members to join and help.

That's like saying I am forced to give someone 50M or lend someone a clue item because I am a Moderator. You don't wanna do that for a new player? What the fuck kind of Moderator are you ... Disgusting and ridiculous! You are forced to do anything for a player to satisfy them... No. I execute my duties based on the way I was trained as a Moderator and the rules prescribed to us. If the rules change and "scamming" in this exact context becomes something enforcable for us Moderators then obviously I will go and do that lmfao. I just don't feel like this "scamming" personally should be in our task description. That's what I meant.

Lol again with the over exaggerations, NOBODY is asking you to do this. This is such a false equivalence scenario, me asking you to watch out for the community from scammers vs you saying you're forced to give a player 50m because they ask, like do you not see how stupid this sounds? Do you expect me to believe you really think this is the same thing? Yes I want scamming to be a punishable offense when proper proof is shown, but you trying so hard to go against that makes me wonder why.. "lmfao" cracking down on scammers/loop holes imo should be in your task description because that goes in line with protecting your community.

And yes, I do actually help players and I'm not an evil person tbh so relacc with the comments on that.. I have many vouches for myself

idk who called you an evil person, that I know of you weren't mentioned at all in this whole conversation til you threw your own hat in the ring. Personally I like the way you've managed as a senior staff member and I consider you a friend so no need to try and make yourself feel good by throwing comments around like 'i have many vouches for myself'. Believe it or not this imo is a constructive discussion, sorry your friend Arrsenic is being dragged through this, but he did it to himself and he's a prime example of why this all came up to begin with and I don't like scammers.

EDIT:
I'd like to add that if anyone think's I'm wrong im 100% up to debate this topic, don't feel discouraged just because we have a difference in opinion. I use examples to show my case and I think we can continue this discussion in a healthy way, I just don't think this is right and it's why I'm being so vocal about it.

[Patel]

Patel was rambling about how nothing was done about Arrsenic, this discussion asks for a vote for change in the way these situations are handled. These things are unrelated to each other. This discussion/vote is used for the future, Patel is talking about the past and how it wasn't handled the way he wanted. So I would definitely say what Patel said was unrelated to the original topic.

read what I wrote dude

[Will be ok2]

This entire situation is so draining now, it was mishandled by the higher ups IMO along with the opinion of the majority of the server. From my perspective currently I couldn’t imagine any rules being changed let alone for the better. Doubtful anything will be done moving forward and now the forums just get littered with spam and endless arguing, to myself it seems like Naz, Arrsenic and Rapsey vs the server. It is what it is which is sad but it’s the truth we currently live in. RIP justice.

[Fungamer]

If the rules change and "scamming" in this exact context becomes something enforcable for us Moderators then obviously I will go and do that lmfao. I just don't feel like this "scamming" personally should be in our task description. That's what I meant.

Sorry but this really reads as "I will do the minimum to keep my rank but I do oppose staff protecting the community better if it means I have to do a bit more work"

You might not have meant it that way but jeez, could you try rephrasing that and actually give a counterargument aside from "lol i cba doing the extra work"?

[Nazuths]

If the rules change and "scamming" in this exact context becomes something enforcable for us Moderators then obviously I will go and do that lmfao. I just don't feel like this "scamming" personally should be in our task description. That's what I meant.

Sorry but this really reads as "I will do the minimum to keep my rank but I do oppose staff protecting the community better if it means I have to do a bit more work"

You might not have meant it that way but jeez, could you try rephrasing that and actually give a counterargument aside from "lol i cba doing the extra work"?

Then you're clearly just interpreting it the way you want to interpret it. I said I don't think it SHOULD be in our task description. I didn't say, ahh I really don't wanna deal with that man that's bothering me so much and takes too much effort. I do a lot for PkHonor even behind the scenes some things that no one will know about or you don't know I did it. I don't care if this becomes a part of the task description. I play this game a minimum of 10 hours a day, I put in constant effort together with my boy @Arrsenic to get PkHonor to a next level. If you want to interpret that as me wanting to do the bare minimum then you do you.

And now I'm not responding anymore unless necessary. If you want to talk about any of this on a personal level you have my number, you can pm me in-game, on forums and on Discord.

[Fungamer]

If the rules change and "scamming" in this exact context becomes something enforcable for us Moderators then obviously I will go and do that lmfao. I just don't feel like this "scamming" personally should be in our task description. That's what I meant.

Sorry but this really reads as "I will do the minimum to keep my rank but I do oppose staff protecting the community better if it means I have to do a bit more work"

You might not have meant it that way but jeez, could you try rephrasing that and actually give a counterargument aside from "lol i cba doing the extra work"?

Then you're clearly just interpreting it the way you want to interpret it. I said I don't think it SHOULD be in our task description. I didn't say, ahh I really don't wanna deal with that man that's bothering me so much and takes too much effort. I do a lot for PkHonor even behind the scenes some things that no one will know about or you don't know I did it. I don't care if this becomes a part of the task description. I play this game a minimum of 10 hours a day, I put in constant effort together with my boy @Arrsenic to get PkHonor to a next level. If you want to interpret that as me wanting to do the bare minimum then you do you.

So, it shouldn't be an actual requirement but mods can just decide for themselves with the non-pmd thread proof which will make the community see those who do it as being better mods? Cause that's okay, I guess. I could live with that. If thats the case I retract my statement.

Or, things shouldn't change at all and while Patel, early and me have given pages of arguments, you haven't really given one at all why it should not change?

No one talked about what you already do or have done for PKH. Weird thing to bring up, man. Even weirder since I've been a mod too with the system we currently want, and it wasn't some herculean task to deal with scam cases + "all my behind the scenes work" I was doing myself...
Even if "i put in a lot of work" is a valid point or metric of validity in this discussion then your knees must be shaking since @Patel disagrees with you.

[Ozymandias]

After a most interesting whatsapp discussion I can confirm that mohammed nelis is indeed out of touch with reality.