scammers and loop holes

[Thearlygamer]

Can we just put it to a vote if players want to get rid of the 'player made deals' standing. Common sense will tell people if someone scammed, and I believe loop holing your way to a win is also a scam, and I think the majority can agree. This whole situation with Arrsenic vs hallow pk3r is just the latest in common sense punishments not being handed out because people want to use words as a way to avoid punishment. "It wasn't stated in DA RULES that a staff member couldn't trick a player into a stake therefore the staff member will remain a mod and he'll have to give back the 150b that the other player deserved to begin with". From what I heard (and was confirmed in the 22 page forum thread) that Roddy and hallow pk3r were having no risk NH stakes before this where hallow pk3r was seeing a clear advantage, so it isn't hard to assume that Roddy found this as a chance to trick hallow pk3r into a larger all or nothing stake. I'd like for staff to investigate if Arrsenic is the one who supplied Roddy with the 450b or if Roddy could afford that pay out at all prior to this. That's neither here nor there, I like Arrsenic and a lot of his clan mates, but I despise scammers and people who manipulate words to cry wolf. This is the same situation I encountered when Taylor Gang scammed a player in a stake for 400b and received no punishment. This in my opinion will, and has, caused a lot of divide in the community and the one who's at fault always has their clan rush to their defence until the shoes on the other foot and they'll play favortism. So please for the love of Allah lets put it to a vote that if players want common sense scammers and loop holers to be dealt with fairly and not allow this to continue. Make it so that the scammed have to provide proof (I.E. recording, screen shots) and staff can back this up through logs to confirm or deny the alligations. If there's any question on if a scam occured then as a staff team brain storm it out, but don't allow people to continue to gain financially from scamming, loop holing, and being dishonest or it just makes everyone lose faith

[Thierryu1]

Lol lmao 69 blaze it

[Fungamer]

Don't get rid of the forums section, it should still be a valid way to have "proof"

Aside from that, go back to ingame ::ss alongside mods checking logs that prove certain things being actual.... Proof.

Support.

Refunds are never guaranteed. Neither is a ban, but while refunds are tricky and sometimes beyond staff control (e.g scammer staked away gp), a ban is within staff control and they should be allowed to act within the guidelines while using their judgement.

Refer to the huge thread as why I think there's potential trust issues from higher ups which might warrant a re-evaluation of the current staff team, which is something that needs to be resolved before this rule change could even happen to begin with, in a way that satisfies the most pressing complaints or concerns.

[Thearlygamer]

Don't get rid of the forums section, it should still be a valid way to have "proof"

Aside from that, go back to ingame ::ss alongside mods checking logs that prove certain things being actual.... Proof.

Support.

Refunds are never guaranteed. Neither is a ban, but while refunds are tricky and sometimes beyond staff control (e.g scammer staked away gp), a ban is within staff control and they should be allowed to act within the guidelines while using their judgement.

Refer to the huge thread as why I think there's potential trust issues from higher ups which might warrant a re-evaluation of the current staff team, which is something that needs to be resolved before this rule change could even happen to begin with, in a way that satisfies the most pressing complaints or concerns.

I didn't mention refunds because that's always a case by case scenario, but I do think punishments should be handed out to the rats of our community who think it's okay to try and get 1 up on the next guy via scamming or loop holing. Also I don't think the "we won't make a decision based on pitchforkin folks pressing us to do so" isn't a great argument considering it took the communitys input to put that player into the position they're in to begin with. I think the communitys voices should be heard, but this post is specifcally on the whole "staff not getting involved in player made deals" because I feel like common sense should be common amongst staff memebers when finding something to be a scam or not there isn't much grey area if people aren't using loop holes to get their way.

[Rapsey]

Common sense will tell people if someone scammed

That's a big assumption. The cases where one player clearly scammed the other are a small minority. Most of the cases fall into one of two categories:

• There's not enough evidence to judge if it was a scam (players have conflicting stories, there's little to no evidence of what happened, there's no record of what exactly the agreement was or the agreement was not well defined, ...)
• It's clear what happened, but the thing they're being reported for is so borderline that you might as well flip a coin to decide if you want to call it a scam or not

Everyone always has a subjective opinion on whether something was a scam after hearing a story? Mostly yes (although quite often I hear people say "I don't care" / "I'm in the middle" / "I don't have an opinion")

Staff can always tell if something was objectively a scam based on the facts? That's wishful thinking.

[Thearlygamer]

Common sense will tell people if someone scammed

That's a big assumption. The cases where one player clearly scammed the other are a small minority. Most of the cases fall into one of two categories:

• There's not enough evidence to judge if it was a scam (players have conflicting stories, there's little to no evidence of what happened, there's no record of what exactly the agreement was or the agreement was not well defined, ...)
• It's clear what happened, but the thing they're being reported for is so borderline that you might as well flip a coin to decide if you want to call it a scam or not

Everyone always has a subjective opinion on whether something was a scam after hearing a story? Mostly yes (although quite often I hear people say "I don't care" / "I'm in the middle" / "I don't have an opinion")

Staff can always tell if something was objectively a scam based on the facts? That's wishful thinking.

That's why I stated that if someone is scammed we should push for suggesting them to record all stakes, gambles, and player made deals. If they want to be proactive at not being scamemd then they need to take the first step, staff can use logs for back up after the fact, but the responsibility should be on the player, but when there's clear proof of a scam we shouldn't let the deed go unpunished just because it was a 'player made deal'. We can have a hard stance on common sense things like switching rules in the duel arena when we all know what a whip/dds stake means no other armour, weapons, prayer, or food is allowed, but this is the bare minimum. I think we should have more faith in your staff team to be able to come together as a whole and come to an agreement if something is a scam based on the evidence or not. I don't think common sense is too common, but the staff team I would hope it'd be more common considering their position and how well they know their community.

[Fungamer]

Common sense will tell people if someone scammed

That's a big assumption. The cases where one player clearly scammed the other are a small minority. Most of the cases fall into one of two categories:

• There's not enough evidence to judge if it was a scam (players have conflicting stories, there's little to no evidence of what happened, there's no record of what exactly the agreement was or the agreement was not well defined, ...)
• It's clear what happened, but the thing they're being reported for is so borderline that you might as well flip a coin to decide if you want to call it a scam or not

Everyone always has a subjective opinion on whether something was a scam after hearing a story? Mostly yes (although quite often I hear people say "I don't care" / "I'm in the middle" / "I don't have an opinion")

Staff can always tell if something was objectively a scam based on the facts? That's wishful thinking.

That's why I stated that if someone is scammed we should push for suggesting them to record all stakes, gambles, and player made deals. If they want to be proactive at not being scamemd then they need to take the first step, staff can use logs for back up after the fact, but the responsibility should be on the player, but when there's clear proof of a scam we shouldn't let the deed go unpunished just because it was a 'player made deal'. We can have a hard stance on common sense things like switching rules in the duel arena when we all know what a whip/dds stake means no other armour, weapons, prayer, or food is allowed, but this is the bare minimum. I think we should have more faith in your staff team to be able to come together as a whole and come to an agreement if something is a scam based on the evidence or not. I don't think common sense is too common, but the staff team I would hope it'd be more common considering their position and how well they know their community.

Not to mention staff doesn't even always have to resort to bans in these cases either. Sometimes it can be talked out and the scammer gives back what is owed (either at first sign of a mod investigating it or after a "mediation") and then leaves with a warning on their record. There's no room for that possibility now, since they have to take a more hands off approach.

I'm not saying that the guidelines and rules should state that mods always have to mediate but I think it should be a possible route for mods to take.

[Marklauten]

Common sense will tell people if someone scammed

That's a big assumption. The cases where one player clearly scammed the other are a small minority. Most of the cases fall into one of two categories:

• There's not enough evidence to judge if it was a scam (players have conflicting stories, there's little to no evidence of what happened, there's no record of what exactly the agreement was or the agreement was not well defined, ...)
• It's clear what happened, but the thing they're being reported for is so borderline that you might as well flip a coin to decide if you want to call it a scam or not

Everyone always has a subjective opinion on whether something was a scam after hearing a story? Mostly yes (although quite often I hear people say "I don't care" / "I'm in the middle" / "I don't have an opinion")

Staff can always tell if something was objectively a scam based on the facts? That's wishful thinking.

First off. Staff or admins have the ability to see program file while PHhonor is running. Second, chat logs and yells, plus any way of communication is logged. There is a way to tell if someone made an agreement. You are just lazy. If the agreement was off PKhonor then there should be some type of record of it. If a player states that they made an agreement online then PKhonor has all the data they need. I have abused this server to see the mod's and admin's capabilities are and know that you as well as your staff are being lazy when stating this. OR You are trying to protect arsenic. Which is also a problem.

There is enough evidence to see scams take place. You just don't want to do the work. You own the server, it's your responsibility to maintain the integrity of the staff and players. I see a tendency of suppression of oppositions which is wrong and immoral. You have the capabilities to see every account I traded with on my botting account and ban each account. It is not associated with IP's because I use a proxy. If it is associated with IP's then it's wildly unreliable. Regardless there are trade logs which is evidence you can look up. There are also chat logs. So if anything happens in game you will be see the history of it. You are just LAZY! Which is impressive with the amount of staff you have.

[Fungamer]

Common sense will tell people if someone scammed

That's a big assumption. The cases where one player clearly scammed the other are a small minority. Most of the cases fall into one of two categories:

• There's not enough evidence to judge if it was a scam (players have conflicting stories, there's little to no evidence of what happened, there's no record of what exactly the agreement was or the agreement was not well defined, ...)
• It's clear what happened, but the thing they're being reported for is so borderline that you might as well flip a coin to decide if you want to call it a scam or not

Everyone always has a subjective opinion on whether something was a scam after hearing a story? Mostly yes (although quite often I hear people say "I don't care" / "I'm in the middle" / "I don't have an opinion")

Staff can always tell if something was objectively a scam based on the facts? That's wishful thinking.

First off. Staff or admins have the ability to see program file while PHhonor is running. Second, chat logs and yells, plus any way of communication is logged. There is a way to tell if someone made an agreement. You are just lazy. If the agreement was off PKhonor then there should be some type of record of it. If a player states that they made an agreement online then PKhonor has all the data they need. I have abused this server to see the mod's and admin's capabilities are and know that you as well as your staff are being lazy when stating this. OR You are trying to protect arsenic. Which is also a problem.

There is enough evidence to see scams take place. You just don't want to do the work. You own the server, it's your responsibility to maintain the integrity of the staff and players. I see a tendency of suppression of oppositions which is wrong and immoral. You have the capabilities to see every account I traded with on my botting account and ban each account. It is not associated with IP's because I use a proxy. If it is associated with IP's then it's wildly unreliable. Regardless there are trade logs which is evidence you can look up. There are also chat logs. So if anything happens in game you will be see the history of it. You are just LAZY! Which is impressive with the amount of staff you have.

FYI seeing programs running is probably only doable by Rapsey himself, and chat isn't logged either or it'd have to be on specific accounts in case you're duping or breaking the game lol. And even then, mods cant see them which is good for player privacy reasons since anyone could be saying private IRL things in public chat at some secluded area or in ::private. Yell logs cant be seen by normal mods either IIRC.

[Raj]

FYI seeing programs running is probably only doable by Rapsey himself, and chat isn't logged either or it'd have to be on specific accounts in case you're duping or breaking the game lol. And even then, mods cant see them which is good for player privacy reasons since anyone could be saying private IRL things in public chat at some secluded area or in ::private. Yell logs cant be seen by normal mods either IIRC.

Didn’t read the other posts yet, but this is all accurate