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[Church]

"Do people think bias exists" is not the same as "does bias exist".
The way you're approaching this: people think bias exists => bias exists.

I did that on purpose as a part of the process.

The next question is in fact the “Why do you believe bias exists?” And that is where the dialogue truly begins. If you walk up to a person and ask them “Why do you believe the earth is flat?”, they will look at you crazy if you don’t first ask them “do you believe the earth is flat?”.

So making a post asking, “Why do you think the staff team shows favoritism?” would be putting the cart before the horse because I just ASSUMING what others believe. First I have to figure out, do people really believes the staff team shows favoritism.

So first we obtain the popular opinion, then we begin getting the reasons why we believe what we believe, then we can gather information to valid or invalidate the reason with real facts and data.

This is ridiculous. Feeling the need to have a poll, a poll that has been pointed out to be incredibly flawed multiple times, in order to determine if you even needed to make a discussion thread talking about it seems like an unnecessarily roundabout way of doing it.

It would've made much more sense for you to make a discussion thread stating your own opinion about the situation and asking for others to add their input with specific information to back up why they feel the way they do.

[Uim elon]

"Do people think bias exists" is not the same as "does bias exist".
The way you're approaching this: people think bias exists => bias exists.

I did that on purpose as a part of the process.

The next question is in fact the “Why do you believe bias exists?” And that is where the dialogue truly begins. If you walk up to a person and ask them “Why do you believe the earth is flat?”, they will look at you crazy if you don’t first ask them “do you believe the earth is flat?”.

So making a post asking, “Why do you think the staff team shows favoritism?” would be putting the cart before the horse because I just ASSUMING what others believe. First I have to figure out, do people really believes the staff team shows favoritism.

So first we obtain the popular opinion, then we begin getting the reasons why we believe what we believe, then we can gather information to valid or invalidate the reason with real facts and data.

This is ridiculous. Feeling the need to have a poll, a poll that has been pointed out to be incredibly flawed multiple times, in order to determine if you even needed to make a discussion thread talking about it seems like an unnecessarily roundabout way of doing it.

It would've made much more sense for you to make a discussion thread stating your own opinion about the situation and asking for others to add their input with specific information to back up why they feel the way they do.

I don’t mean to be a dick, but it actually makes me sad that a simple poll is angering you. I’m not sure if it is the outcome of the poll or that the question was even asked. Either way, the intent for the poll has been spelled out many times above, so I’m not gonna continue providing you justification for the poll.

If you feel that the poll is so unnecessary and so useless, then simply don’t involve yourself with the discussion. Myself, Rapsey, Nazuths, and others have had quite an interesting conversation over such a controversial question. And I feel as though we did it without attacking each other.

And @Uim legolas , I think you are thinking a bit too much into it. Yes, I might hate Nazuths more than Brussels sprouts, but he hasn’t done anything to me (nor has any of the other staff members) to incite a riot (which seems to be the common conclusion that people are coming to). If you wanna just chock it up to one thing, I would say this was simply a question to satisfy my curiosity. It wasn’t to target a single person for corruption.

Now seeing the conclusion of the poll, I would have loved for this to transition into a deeper discussion to truly understand why people voted yes, but obviously it is truly bothering some people.

To conclude, as many people stated already.... this was kind of a common sense question.... Ofcourse it happens. Doesn’t mean it’s a good thing, and it doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing. It is simply human nature to gravitate towards people you favor, and to show leniency depending on environment and mood. I just wanted to simply see how much of the community simply ignore it and refuse to recognize it.

If you feel personally attacked by the question, then you need to find peace in yourself.

[Church]

I did that on purpose as a part of the process.

The next question is in fact the “Why do you believe bias exists?” And that is where the dialogue truly begins. If you walk up to a person and ask them “Why do you believe the earth is flat?”, they will look at you crazy if you don’t first ask them “do you believe the earth is flat?”.

So making a post asking, “Why do you think the staff team shows favoritism?” would be putting the cart before the horse because I just ASSUMING what others believe. First I have to figure out, do people really believes the staff team shows favoritism.

So first we obtain the popular opinion, then we begin getting the reasons why we believe what we believe, then we can gather information to valid or invalidate the reason with real facts and data.

This is ridiculous. Feeling the need to have a poll, a poll that has been pointed out to be incredibly flawed multiple times, in order to determine if you even needed to make a discussion thread talking about it seems like an unnecessarily roundabout way of doing it.

It would've made much more sense for you to make a discussion thread stating your own opinion about the situation and asking for others to add their input with specific information to back up why they feel the way they do.

I don’t mean to be a dick, but it actually makes me sad that a simple poll is angering you. I’m not sure if it is the outcome of the poll or that the question was even asked. Either way, the intent for the poll has been spelled out many times above, so I’m not gonna continue providing you justification for the poll.

If you feel that the poll is so unnecessary and so useless, then simply don’t involve yourself with the discussion. Myself, Rapsey, Nazuths, and others have had quite an interesting conversation over such a controversial question. And I feel as though we did it without attacking each other.

And @Uim legolas , I think you are thinking a bit too much into it. Yes, I might hate Nazuths more than Brussels sprouts, but he hasn’t done anything to me (nor has any of the other staff members) to incite a riot (which seems to be the common conclusion that people are coming to). If you wanna just chock it up to one thing, I would say this was simply a question to satisfy my curiosity. It wasn’t to target a single person for corruption.

Now seeing the conclusion of the poll, I would have loved for this to transition into a deeper discussion to truly understand why people voted yes, but obviously it is truly bothering some people.

To conclude, as many people stated already.... this was kind of a common sense question.... Ofcourse it happens. Doesn’t mean it’s a good thing, and it doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing. It is simply human nature to gravitate towards people you favor, and to show leniency depending on environment and mood. I just wanted to simply see how much of the community simply ignore it and refuse to recognize it.

If you feel personally attacked by the question, then you need to find peace in yourself.

It's not angering me? It's not a helpful way to discuss things by asserting you know how other people feel, you know. I used to argue with people online a lot, when I was younger, and I've experienced this a lot. People think too highly of themselves and what they think and when anyone disagrees openly with them about it they strawman the arguments and try to make it seem like they're just upset or angry. Cause clearly if you have negative emotions about something your opinions and arguments are automatically invalid. Real smart and logical humans never get upset about anything.

Your justifications just don't make sense. You've ignored me multiple times when I've (and Rapsey, who is supposedly free from the crime of emotion) pointed out the question itself is flawed. Your best response has basically been to say "nuh huh!". It really does seem to me this poll exists more because you were unhappy with being told mods weren't abusing their power to scout you in the wild, and so you're looking for something else to be upset about. If you had actually wanted to have a real discussion about it you would've just had the discussion, the amount of people who agree with the base assumption you're making is entirely irrelevant to the discussion. You would've gotten a general amount of people but with actual substance to why with a normal discussion post.

I haven't attacked you either. I find it weird you would say I've attacked you despite the things you've said to people like The Underdog. Suppose it's different when you do it, eh?

But this is why adults don’t invite children to an adult conversation, because children say random stuff with no true context and provide no real meaning to the discussion.

[Patel]

The next question is in fact the “Why do you believe bias exists?” And that is where the dialogue truly begins. If you walk up to a person and ask them “Why do you believe the earth is flat?”, they will look at you crazy if you don’t first ask them “do you believe the earth is flat?”.

This is where you lose me - everyone already knows bias inconsistency exists, and we're already discussing/open to discussing where it comes from.

This poll changed nothing in that regard. Maybe there are people who think it doesn't exist, and this makes it more clear for them? But no one I know of is disputing that there is a discrepancy. The dialogue is a step ahead of you

[Brant]

Welp, so much for no replies, yet here we are having an entire discussion about the fact people will always have some type of bias, no matter who you are. Is it wrong? Yes. Will anything be done about it? Probably not, not a whole lot you can do about it. We don't need this conversation to go on anymore

[Uim elon]

It's not angering me? It's not a helpful way to discuss things by asserting you know how other people feel, you know.

So making a post asking, “Why do you think the staff team shows favoritism?” would be putting the cart before the horse because I just ASSUMING what others believe.

You've ignored me multiple times when I've (and Rapsey, who is supposedly free from the crime of emotion) pointed out the question itself is flawed. Your best response has basically been to say "nuh huh!".

So first we obtain the popular opinion, then we begin getting the reasons why we believe what we believe, then we can gather information to valid or invalidate the reason with real facts and data.

This completely discredits anything you say:

It really does seem to me this poll exists more because you were unhappy with being told mods weren't abusing their power to scout you in the wild, and so you're looking for something else to be upset about.

It’s actually funny you make this accusation. I would love for you to link a thread where I said I believe that mods are abusing me by using their powers to scout me in the wilderness. Because now you’re just making stuff up. My beef has always been with Honor accounts.

This completely discredits anything you say.

If you had actually wanted to have a real discussion about it you would've just had the discussion, the amount of people who agree with the base assumption you're making is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

It’s only irrelevant to you. I didn’t make the post for you.

I find it weird you would say I've attacked you despite the things you've said to people like The Underdog. Suppose it's different when you do it, eh?

I said what I said because it was true? He made a completely baseless, false statement in an attempt to bait me. That’s what children do.

And you calling my polls useless and accusing me of just trying to incite an argument is you attacking me.

[Uim elon]

The next question is in fact the “Why do you believe bias exists?” And that is where the dialogue truly begins. If you walk up to a person and ask them “Why do you believe the earth is flat?”, they will look at you crazy if you don’t first ask them “do you believe the earth is flat?”.

This is where you lose me - everyone already knows bias inconsistency exists, and we're already discussing/open to discussing where it comes from.

This poll changed nothing in that regard. Maybe there are people who think it doesn't exist, and this makes it more clear for them? But no one I know of is disputing that there is a discrepancy. The dialogue is a step ahead of you

This really wasn’t my intent with the post.

Let me give you a very extreme example....

If I ask the server “Does racism exist?”.... and 80% says yes, and 20% says no......

Now if I split the groups up, and I ask the 80% “Why do you believe racism exists?”. What I would get are reasons and examples and scenarios that people have experienced. Then we can work on identifying and solving the issue.

If I go to the 20% and ask “Why do you believe racism exists?” I would simply get back “Racism doesn’t exist”. There is no discussion to be had there because they don’t believe there is a problem.



So what has happened here is that I attempted to identify those who believe a problem exist by the poll..... and instead of getting the chance to isolate those who believe there is in fact a problem, I was bombarded by those who believe there is no problem. I had no intent of arguing the existence of the problem. I have better use of my time like talking with those who are experiencing problems (or atleast feel like they are experiencing the problems) and coming up with a solution for them.

[The underdog]

Why would you not be open to the other sides opinion in the matter, if you say the reason is exploring the why part. Invalidating one entire half of the group is one of the worst things you can do, not objective proof and it's biased from the start. If you just started the discussion you can always ignore the posts that don't fit in your worldview and everyone's happy. You could also just theme it that way from the start like, if you experienced staff favoritism please share it here or w.e. Then your wouldn't be conflicting yourself.

Shit I needa keep up to stay in the top of most controversial posting forums users.

[Church]

Ah yes, my opinion that you clearly wanted isn't the opinion you were looking for so my opinion is entirely discredited.

You really need to take a step back and take a second look at the way you come across in this thread.

[Uim elon]

Ah yes, my opinion that you clearly wanted isn't the opinion you were looking for so my opinion is entirely discredited.

You really need to take a step back and take a second look at the way you come across in this thread.

Why would you not be open to the other sides opinion in the matter, if you say the reason is exploring the why part. Invalidating one entire half of the group is one of the worst things you can do, not objective proof and it's biased from the start. If you just started the discussion you can always ignore the posts that don't fit in your worldview and everyone's happy.

Shit I needa keep up to stay in the top of most controversial posting forums users.

I knew this would be the talking point.

There is a difference between ignoring someone because they disagree with you, and ignoring someone because their opinion isn’t worth arguing.

I’ve always been willing to debate someone if we both make valid points. But if I’m right and someone else is wrong, then I’m not gonna waste my time trying to explain to someone why they are wrong.

“Oh, so since someone doesn’t agree with you, then their opinion is automatically wrong”..... No chuck. If I say “The earth is a sphere” and you say “The earth is flat” one of us is WRONG and one is right. I’m not gonna argue it.

The reason I will sit here and debate Patel or Rapsey, is because although we don’t quite agree with the way the poll was created, they still make a valid point that there are problems, but they don’t think it’s favoritism. That’s a debatable point. Not “There are no problems, this whole poll is stupid.”