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[Nazuths]

God, I love these kind of threads.

Gonna be a no for me, I'm the only one showing favoritism, not the rest of the team

I appreciate your honesty, but unfortunately, a team is only as strong as their weakest link. Therefore your flaws reflect across the entire team because you guys are one.

I don't fully agree to be fair, if one Staff member abuses his power, that doesn't mean all of them do, the same goes for favoritism.

[Thoby]

I like to think that I am @Church's favorite...

[Rapsey]

I like to think that I am @Church's favorite...

You're everyone's favorite. It's in the staff guidelines.

[Uim elon]

God, I love these kind of threads.

Gonna be a no for me, I'm the only one showing favoritism, not the rest of the team

I appreciate your honesty, but unfortunately, a team is only as strong as their weakest link. Therefore your flaws reflect across the entire team because you guys are one.

I don't fully agree to be fair, if one Staff member abuses his power, that doesn't mean all of them do, the same goes for favoritism.

Ok, I’ll go along with that statement. Now if the members realize that there is abuse going on, and they allow it, then wouldn’t you agree that it goes from being a personal problem to being a team problem?

I did not presume showing favoritism was a good thing or a bad thing in my post. But if the server as a whole comes to conclusion that favoritism is shown, then as a server we come to the conclusion that it isn’t right, then we have collectively identified a problem, and we work towards a solution.

But vise Versa, if we collectively decide that favoritism is actually in the best interest of the server, then we have recognized that something is present, but it isn’t necessarily a problem.

To get to either solution, we have to first ask the question of is favoritism even a thing, and if people are not willing to admit that it is in fact a thing, then the further conversations don’t truly matter. You can’t have a conversation about morality without recognition.

[Thierryu1]

I like to think that I am @Church's favorite...

You're everyone's favorite. It's in the staff guidelines.

[Nazuths]

I appreciate your honesty, but unfortunately, a team is only as strong as their weakest link. Therefore your flaws reflect across the entire team because you guys are one.

I don't fully agree to be fair, if one Staff member abuses his power, that doesn't mean all of them do, the same goes for favoritism.

Ok, I’ll go along with that statement. Now if the members realize that there is abuse going on, and they allow it, then wouldn’t you agree that it goes from being a personal problem to being a team problem?

Instead of allowing it I'd go to Ryan if I realize a Staff member is abusing, and it'll be a Ryan problem

[Rapsey]

I did not presume showing favoritism was a good thing or a bad thing in my post. But if the server as a whole comes to conclusion that favoritism is shown, then as a server we come to the conclusion that it isn’t right, then we have collectively identified a problem, and we work towards a solution.

But vise Versa, if we collectively decide that favoritism is actually in the best interest of the server, then we have recognized that something is present, but it isn’t necessarily a problem.

To get to either solution, we have to first ask the question of is favoritism even a thing, and if people are not willing to admit that it is in fact a thing, then the further conversations don’t truly matter. You can’t have a conversation about morality without recognition.

I agree with your premise: you have to confirm that it exists before you can move on to addressing it. But I don't think that's what you're doing.

"Do people think bias exists" is not the same as "does bias exist".
The way you're approaching this: people think bias exists => bias exists.

There are many parallels to be drawn with real life debates about potential bias. Take gender bias in the workplace for example.

You can ask 1000 people if they think women are disadvantaged in the workplace. Even if they think so, that's no indicator that it's actually true. You're just polling people's perceptions on the issue. Like you said, perceptions are important, but they are also biased themselves and by no means prove that something is real.

So you go down a layer and start investigating the data. Aha, women make less money than men, bias confirmed! Well no actually. Bias could be one of the reasons why this happens, but there are many others. (e.g. women being less career-oriented and competitive on average, not being as likely to work 60+ hours a week, choosing not to prioritize career over birthing and raising children and so on).

These are complex multifaceted issues and bias is just one possible factor for why there are differences, if you've even gone as far as to confirm that there are differences and aren't still stuck on the perception level. To actually determine that bias exists you have to look at why there are differences. Fortunately you have already pointed out that the "why" is exactly what you're interested in so it seems we are on the same page there.

But back to our staff bias. I will say this: for the purpose of doing a proper analysis of this, having that level of transparency would be beneficial. But in my 10 years on this server I have never seen anyone use transparency that way. All they do with it is pick out individual cases to argue about. No one ever uses it to properly investigate large scale issues, only as a tool for applying pressure to get what they want (i.e. making sure the people they dislike get punished as hard as possible and making a lot of noise when they feel they themselves have been punished too harshly).

[Thoby]

I like to think that I am @Church's favorite...

You're everyone's favorite. It's in the staff guidelines.

<3

[Uim elon]

"Do people think bias exists" is not the same as "does bias exist".
The way you're approaching this: people think bias exists => bias exists.

I did that on purpose as a part of the process.

The next question is in fact the “Why do you believe bias exists?” And that is where the dialogue truly begins. If you walk up to a person and ask them “Why do you believe the earth is flat?”, they will look at you crazy if you don’t first ask them “do you believe the earth is flat?”.

So making a post asking, “Why do you think the staff team shows favoritism?” would be putting the cart before the horse because I just ASSUMING what others believe. First I have to figure out, do people really believes the staff team shows favoritism.

So first we obtain the popular opinion, then we begin getting the reasons why we believe what we believe, then we can gather information to valid or invalidate the reason with real facts and data.

[Uim legolas]

I struggle to really see the point in this.
Is this whole discussion about the staff team? Or is this about personal problems with one specific staff member?

I feel like everyone who voted yes, just thought about that one moderator they dislike.
I think, if you ask this question about every specific member of the staff team, not a single mod would get anything near this 66% biased rating. (Plz don't let this backfire on me..)

Alltho I'm the most recent mod, I have never disagreed with a mute of any of my fellow mods. They always have good reason to, and always try to de-escalate situations as far as possible.
A lot of mutes people think might be a retaliation of a mod they had an arguement with, wasn't even a mute of that specific mod. They just crossed a line.

(Also: be happy Ely isn't online more often.. That man hands out 24 hours mutes without a warning...)