Skiller Highscores

[Empty bag]

Resetting a skill always let you have 1xp and not 0 as when you first start that skill.

Thats how you see the difference.

200 iq

[Fungamer]

I hate seeing initiatives go to waste because it wasn't planned decently at the start.

I hate seeing them go to waste because some bored know-it-all bogs them down arguing about pointless details or problems that don't exist yet and probably never will.

Yea I know, that's ironic coming from me. I have learned from first-hand experience: trying to do everything perfect from the start is why you end up getting nothing done.

Spoiler: show

Y'know, could've avoided this thread/discussion to begin with if the thing Patel said got added because no one with a reasonable amount of XP would want to reset their precious high-xp combat stats to get in a sub-list of the highscores and as mentioned x100 before, skillers don't have it harder xp-wise compared to mains. But hey, let's overthink shit and worry about implementing things 'the perfect way' months down the road while the perfectly reasonable way that will make the community content with it is given to you on a golden platter, aye?

xD



--

Had a good chat with Church and we decided that I'd post how I think he's going to do it vs how I think it should be done so we can actually understand eachothers point as discussing it 1 on 1 also doesn't seem to let us understand eachother fully.

What I believe to be Churches method

Spoiler: show

-> 2 week period where anyone who used to be a main but now turned skiller can still be accepted to the list.
-> After 2 weeks rules become stricter and only 'from the start' skillers can get on the list
-> To enforce rules logs must be checked for ::setlevel and needs semi regular followups to ensure integrity.
-> Some players get a bit of leeway on a case-to-case basis. E.G player lamps to 99s but then changes mind.
-> Rules are a work in progress and are expected to be posted soon.

Why I dislike this method: The 2 week period is unfair to new players or players who do not use the forums on a regular basis. If it is a case-to-case basis, why bother with the 2 week period anyways? The argument of case-to-case basis is a much better argument than 'you were to late, should have applied in those two weeks'. I also feel like this method is too tedious if Church has to do a log check of every player who wants to join and also has to review their logs every now and then to ensure that players havent been pvming every now and then to then ::setlevel back. Apparently, judging from the talk I had with Church, it seems like there are rules coming. Unsure why there need to be extensive rules on this when you only need one or two that are easily defined. All in all, it's a complicated process for something that should be very easy.

Depending on the rules, I believe the list will have enough tedious work as is. It will not be as easy as posting a screenshot from the friends highscores, because it still sorts players by total level. Not all skillers consider slayer as a combat skill, not all skillers have the same combat level. Their total level will differ so Church will need to sort these highscores by hand on his thread. This is unrelated to the 'why i dislike this method' part, but it strengthens the argument that tedious

Note: I could be wrong on some of these points. That is also partially the purpose, this way Church can also point out to me and others what his process will ACTUALLY be.

What I propose

Spoiler: show

-> 2 Requirements: Be a skiller. Do not have over 15M XP in slayer if you transition from main to skiller to apply. This is a hard skill to gain XP for skillers. Players can lower their slayer level to meet the requirement.
-> 1 Rule: Do not train combat stats.
-> Check if they have combat stats levelled up. If yes, denied. If no, accepted.
-> When the list is updated, do the above step with all current participants. This needs to happen anyways to update the list, which checks if players are abiding the rule. If a player has combat stats while on the list, the player gets thrown off the list permanently. This is enforcing the rule.

Why I like this method: Simple and easy. No need for logs. If a player wants to get on the skiller highscores and meets the requirements, they should be allowed in. 'Ex-mains' do not have any xp/h benefit in skills aside from slayer, which is adressed in the requirements. XP is the only thing that counts in the highscores and sizeable wealth is accumulated on alts, giveaways, merching... anyways, so does not provide a threat to these skillers.

No one with a reasonable amount of XP would want to reset their high-xp combat stats to get in a forums thread but lose their spot on the actual highscores. Players risk losing their spot forever if they do train combat stats which should deter them from even attempting this, as Church would be updating the list randomly (= checking your stats!) as he's not some robot who does it every day at a set hour. The only tool Church will need are the forum thread and the existing highscores.

Note
I withdraw the proposal for 99 hp skillers and all that shit. Let's stay true to the OSRS definitions of skillers and skills, where it states that slayer does not count as a non combat skill. I feel like this is the most neutral path to take. There will of course still be skillers with combat level < 3, but thats easier to sort through than the 99hp skillers and what not.

[Rapsey]

Why I believe this is ridiculous

Spoiler: show

You have two main arguments for coming up with your alternative solution:

1. "No need to check the logs"

"Just check the highscores instead."

...

You do realize that hitting a name into the log search and pressing enter is the exact same amount of work as doing it in the highscores, right?

2. "No 2 week period"

Dude, the 2 week period is just to motivate people to do it now. If you're organizing something like this it's much easier if you can get through the bulk of it fairly quickly, and it helps to get this highscores thingy kickstarted. As if we're gonna say "lol sux 4 u" if someone returns from vacation after 2+ weeks. Seriously. You should know better than that. Exceptions will continue to be made because we always do our best to accommodate people if at all possible.

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So, you have two arguments and both are invalid. One is to simplify something except your way is not simpler at all, the other is to solve a problem that was never going to be a problem anyway.

And you solve these two not-really-problems by... completely throwing away the whole concept of being a skiller. You act like highscores are only about XP but you forget that being a true skiller is about proving that you have gotten all of that XP and everything else on your account without having any combat stats. Finally the little guys get their corner of recognition for having done everything on a combat-impaired account and you want to fuck it up by letting mains convert to skillers. Kinda missing the point there.

[Pim]

Bro Rapsey its really not for no reason that literally this entire servers community dislikes him lol a fullban would be an insanely good riddance.

(Posts made about his post limit are not jokes aswell btw)

[Fungamer]

hi

Spoiler: show

Why I believe this is ridiculous


1. "No need to check the logs"

"Just check the highscores instead."

...

You do realize that hitting a name into the log search and pressing enter is the exact same amount of work as doing it in the highscores, right?

Yes, I do realize that doing a search in the logs takes as much effort as doing a highscore search. You do realize that hitting a name into the log search and pressing enter AND doing the same in the highscores means that he will do double the amount of work, right?

2. "No 2 week period"

Dude, the 2 week period is just to motivate people to do it now. If you're organizing something like this it's much easier if you can get through the bulk of it fairly quickly, and it helps to get this highscores thingy kickstarted. As if we're gonna say "lol sux 4 u" if someone returns from vacation after 2+ weeks. Seriously. You should know better than that. Exceptions will continue to be made because we always do our best to accommodate people if at all possible.

I'm sorry but I'm not sure you understand the 2 week period aswell?
I quote DJ Church on this when I asked him the point of the 2 week period: 'So no one can come up to me later and say they wanted on but the finalized version of the rules disqualifies them'
To expand on that, 'After this 2 weeks, there is gonna be stricter rules.'

Yes, people will still get put on the list if they have been on some vacation or joined the server after these two weeks, as I was explained later down the conversation that he would decide on a case-by-case basis. Why even bother in that case? Motivate the current community of skillers to do it now by planting the thought 'oh I got to do this now or I wont be able to later'? Excuse me but this is a RSPS, not Supreme where they employ scarcity marketing. People will still get leeway anyways so why would they all sign up during these two weeks if they can first get their skiller up to a standard where they know they'll be ranked high to begin with?

Having these two weeks of stricter rules and still handling things on a case-by-case basis makes the two weeks of stricter rules completely redundant unless the leeway people get during the two weeks goes further than the leeway people get after the two weeks, which would be unfair. Church told me wouldn't be that way and it would be fair, so why bother with the two weeks to begin with? You said the same, exceptions will continue to be made anyways. To me, it seems like an unneeded complication.

And you solve these two not-really-problems by... completely throwing away the whole concept of being a skiller. You act like highscores are only about XP but you forget that being a true skiller is about proving that you have gotten all of that XP and everything else on your account without having any combat stats. Finally the little guys get their corner of recognition for having done everything on a combat-impaired account and you want to fuck it up by letting mains convert to skillers. Kinda missing the point there.

Dude. You're forgetting this is a RSPS. You can get every 99 and beyond by staying at a few teleports. None of them pose any danger whatsoever to the skiller. You could even argue that some of their grinds are easier due to their low combat level. (Wildy agility, left click rogues). On OSRS and RS3, yes. If you are a skiller you have to alter your entire playstyle and plan ahead to know which quests you can and should to to get more xp/h, what will help you make GP, how to get certain fashionscape items, ...

On PKH, no quest can be completed by a skiller. On PKH, you can get the highest XP rates like maxed people do in every skill except slayer. On PKH, you either buy the fashionscape items/open a mbox or you can not wear it due to stat limitations.

Allowing a main to convert to a skiller screws them and their max cape/comp/... + spot on the actual highscores over. It's stupid for them to do this, but hey, if they really want to convert to skiller on that account and STAY as a skiller unless they want to be permanently kicked from the highscores, why not let them do it? Their grind was not easier than the grind skillers had. They would've been able to get those stats with the same amount of effort & time put into it if they had lvl 1 in combat stats.
Highscores are about XP and total level regardless of what the hell you're saying. That's the entire reason there would be a highscore thread for skillers: The official highscores sort based on total level instead of XP, which does not accurately display the position of a skiller in the highscores! All these excuses trying to change the meaning of highscores just because you're to stubborn to admit that skillers don't have it harder XP-wise on PKH exactly because the server is lacking content for them. My views on highscores would be completely different if skillers on PKH actually had to alter their playstyle to be able to reach 99s/2bs in non-combat skills. Sly though, supporting these 'little guys' by discussing something small like this while ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that these highscores might revitalize a dying aspect of the game due to the lack of actual content and challenges posed for these 'little guys'.
Have you considered joining a political party in Belgium? We recently discussed that this is exactly what they do too!

Highscores do not show wealth, specific items or anything else, they only show XP and total level. 'True' skillers still get to boast with items they got without combat stats (E.G a boss pet they leeched). If a person who converted to main has these items (which he indeed get in an easier way, though this has nothing to do with appearing on highscores) and boasts with these items, he will get shat on by everyone else because they know that he didn't get them in 'the skiller way'. If shit gets out of hand then it can be handled like every dispute players have with eachothers account: They get a mod to verify it. This is already an extremely far fetched scenario which has nothing to do with highscores though.


Either way, I can't be bothered to discuss this further. You wont change your mind, I wont change my mind. You'll only get more pissed off and an angry isn't good for anyone. I only hope that Church will make the correct decisions and not have this thing die.

[Rapsey]

Which brings me back to my original conclusion: you're only here to argue.

[Church]

[Slap a ho]

Jesus fucking Christ L0L

[James]

Jesus fucking Christ L0L

[Patel]

Nice initiative, DJ.

What the hell, Lieven.

Edit: my idea was def not perfect. But I stated explicitly that it was made without consideration for whether or not someone had CB stats/benefitted from having CB stats. Obviously a more balanced hiscores would disclude those who have/had CB stats