PkHonor

Consider this a followup of this bug report regarding the dragon spear special attack. It appears that our dragon spear mechanics are not quite the same as in OSRS, especially concerning immunity against stun & freeze after being stunned by the dragon spear. However, there seems to be some disagreement about this mechanic as well as about tele block.

When you are under the effect of a freeze (or bind, snare or entangle) spell, you have 5 ticks (3 seconds) of immunity against freeze after the freeze expires. However, there is no such immunity when teleblocked or stunned. The combination of tele block, freeze and dragon spear special attacks in their current form can lead to some frustrating moments to players trying to escape a PK'er.

I would like to settle the issue by putting up this official poll. Cast your vote and let us know your reasoning behind it. Please do keep it civilized. And remember that raw numbers is not the only thing that matters.

As an active pker I support both to make you immune from TB’s for 30seconds for a cool down period once your current TB expires along with a cool down once your stunned from a dragon spear, between these two mechanics it’s virtually impossible to escape pkers with a medium level of skill and communication.

The server already has very good in-slot gear (some people call it OP) such as Zuriels, vestas and CWars gear. This IMO already gives pkers a massive edge while pking.

Make the cooldowns become a thing so pkers / pvmers actually have a chance to escape or tank TB’s.


Even considering the fact if someone is at frosts and they run to mage bank, likely they wouldn’t get tb’d until close to the lever, we could call that an easy 90-120 seconds of being attacked prior to a TB, consider the fact most tb’ers bring a dragon scimmy for the spec to remove any overhead prayers now they’re a full 5minute TB. If they can outlast that they should be good to live.. rather than now you’ll get barraged and speared away from the lever for 20 seconds until they land ANOTHER TB. Which then you’re just dead....

Another thought: don’t allow spears to move you back while the person is barraged... this is another big problem but I guess a different fix...

Should we allow players to get TB'ed while in an area that can only be escaped by a lever? (thinking of the mage training arena)

On topic, I think there should be a cool down, we're a small server as it is with OP gear and clans as large as my ego. There are some escape routes, but they're useless if you can't get to them, I know pkers complain about pathing, and I agree it should be fixed, but that doesn't mean these suggestions also shouldn't be introduced.

I don't think anyone should be garunteed to live or die, but a cool down is giving a player a chance to live ONLY AFTER the pker already had their chance to kill.

Ur nans hc wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:21 pm Another thought: don’t allow spears to move you back while the person is barraged... this is another big problem but I guess a different fix...

With "Don't allow players to be stunned while frozen", I also meant that players would be immune to being shoved away with a dragon spear while barraged. Perhaps I should have put up another poll option for that specifically, but I considered stunned and shoved as pretty much the same thing.

I'm not too sure if I agree with the immunity on a teleblock, there are quiet a few things that need to go right for it to be effective and I think if these conditions are met, then yes, the player should have the chance to get re'teleblocked..

However I don't like the current method of getting speared 4x as your teleblock is about to expire, what if we where to remove spearing from the two levered areas in deep wilderness where most of these issues arise.

And also bringing the teleblock spell up to the standard of osrs viewtopic.php?f=134&t=81977

If we were to keep everything identical to now, there is nothing stopping 1 player from infinitely tbing a player, with no way to counter it.

Immunity to spear movement while frozen- This would make sense because the point of a freeze is that the opponent can’t move. It doesn’t really make sense for a player to be able to move a frozen player freely. The stun is a different mechanic because it allows for stacks.

Tb timer- We already have a control in effect where if a player is skilled enough, and gets his protection prayer up, he gets half TBed. This is in sense a reward for skillful gameplay. Being able to be unlimitedly TBed without a chance to utilize your skills to prevent a death completely defeats the purpose of having these skill based mechanics. Using work arounds to completely avoid things like TB timers shouldn’t be a thing; so introducing a game mechanic to remove the work arounds is a good idea to me.

Gonna lose a pvmer vs pker poll 99% of the time anyways but whatever.

TB immunity is not even an option in my opinion, it's not like that on osrs, you already can teleport before the pker can make his action (or 2nd tb) as it is. You can see exactly when your tb ends while the pker has to keep track of it. You have basically free food and super cheap tanking gear to compensate for strong pker gear. Magic is the crippled attack style in the combat triangle. You need a team to pull off consistent successful teleblocks and re-teleblocks. If you don't have a team you're extremely exposed with a high risk setup or got a super weak setup that won't do shit. This change will only affect deep wilderness pvp. Places that weren't intended to be safe zones. You're already safe from 1 to 35 wilderness and this change will make that everywhere except for the furthest points from a teleport. And why? Because pvmers and solo pkers die to a coordinated team that has the best equipment, pkers and strategies? You're in the worst case scenario in deep wilderness, if that becomes safe then what isn't safe? 100% after people stop dying to teleblocks and complaining, the next thing will be whatever weapon ko's them.

About D spear, it was somewhat like our version on osrs and they made a change because in especially in pvp worlds next to the bank this mechanic is vastly overpowered against melee pkers close to the safe zone. And in deep wilderness there would be literal clans with 50 spearing and 50 ancient mace smiting players. We don't have those problems. D spear adds a huge layer to deep pking and requires a lot of tactical insight and very expensive equipment. It's a two handed weapon leaving you exposed, whether you're in multi or singles. It's either a team killing you or a singles pker that needs bis gear to make this worthwhile.

The problem is that everyone wants to be at singles combat in a near safe area next to magebank while there's already many escapes. Remove magebank spawner so there isn't as much traffic on an area originally intended to be low traffic. If you reach ardy lever that's a 100% escape when your tb wears off for example. But no we're at magebank spawner, something osrs doesn't have for a reason.

Tb immunity is a no go, osrs doesn't have it either.
The 1 tick not-stunned after a spear spec is already there so ok? Maybe with multiple spears you mean, sure add 1 tick.
Freezing immunity after a spearing attack? At least this makes sense. I don't like it but I can see this as a balancing option.
But the spearing while frozen should stay as the purpose of the spec is moving you one square.
Magic should be put in line with ranged and melee.

Elon musky wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:15 am We already have a control in effect where if a player is skilled enough, and gets his protection prayer up, he gets half TBed. This is in sense a reward for skillful gameplay. Being able to be unlimitedly TBed without a chance to utilize your skills to prevent a death completely defeats the purpose of having these skill based mechanics. Using work arounds to completely avoid things like TB timers shouldn’t be a thing; so introducing a game mechanic to remove the work arounds is a good idea to me.

This is hilarious, so putting on mage prayer is skillful, but d spear tbing is not skillful? In my entire PKing career on here, I have never been d spear tbed simply because the skill required for this is something my opponents don't have. Sure, people like me and @The underdog make it seem easy, but it's simply due to our high skill level. Pulling off the d spear re-TB seems to me, as you said, a reward for skillful gameplay.

But yeah, I don't really care anymore for these kinds of polls because the PvMers will always be the majority and they'll only ever vote for whatever benefits them, as shown by the Honor nerf. There is also not really anyone to PK anymore either, the opposing clans don't enter the wild, neither do the HCIMs, and the few PvMers that are in wild risk a ring of wealth and black d'hides.

I'd much rather see a thread on what we can do to make the Wilderness active again so the PvMers don't have to complain about getting killed by bored PKers.

I don't think tele block immunity is the way to go.

It actually takes some skill to track and successfully re-teleblock someone after theirs expires. Skill should be rewarded.

Indifferent about the rest although I'd agree that the dragon spear special attack should move the player one square in general, even when they are frozen, as that is its mechanic and where it gets its value.

Mike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:10 pm I would like to settle the issue by putting up this official poll. Cast your vote and let us know your reasoning behind it. Please do keep it civilized. And remember that raw numbers is not the only thing that matters.

Since you guys seemed to miss this part of the post.

But I would also like to bring up, these abused mechanics are being abused in conjunction with this bug also:
viewtopic.php?f=67&t=82419&p=729560&hilit=Skull#p728935

So in the unlucky situation that a player encounters a pking abusing the Dspear for infinite Tbs, and they decide to try and fight back, the player instantly becomes skulled do to this bug.

I don’t mean to try and shift the topic from its core to a side issue, but because they are often used in conjunction, I feel that it is necessary to atleast mention.

So we are at a point now that if a player decides to fight back, he gets skulled and risks all his items due to someone bug abusing, but if a player decided to not fight back and just try to escape, they can be unlimitedly TBed due to the other bug abuse. Now I may be biased because I am a victim of the bug abuse, but I also know that there will be some bias from those who abuse one or both the bugs.