PkHonor

Nazuths wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:45 pm I think the main problem is that it is against the rules, but when it happens outside of the official PkHonor platforms, there's nothing Staff can do about it.

Technically someone could dox someone to every single player in Discord PM and not get in trouble, at all. I think that is just as bad as publicly posting it on the Forums.

This is exactly what happened to me, and the people (mitrovic) that do/did it, get away with it with no repercussions, which is sad.

Xsquire1 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:58 pm I feel like when you start handing out ingame punishments for out of game behavior, it gets foggy and the line can become quickly blurred.

Because that could honestly be compared to every offense that is committed whether it is Real World Trading, Botting, etc.

I do like the idea of linking discord profiles to forums accounts.

Church wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:46 pm Punishing players for committing an IRL crime against one of our players does not necessarily mean we have to start punishing for a bunch of other IRL things too, and it's nonsensical to think it does.

Church wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:46 pm Calling it out of game behavior is a little disingenuous. You cannot disconnect the affect these actions have on people in game just because it didn't necessarily happen in game. As pointed out, we don't punish people for things that happen outside of PkHonor platforms in most cases but the argument is that the negative consequences of these actions is in PkHonor's area and intentionally so.

Rapsey wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:38 pm It is most definitely against the rules and punishable. Although it's not explicitly mentioned in our rules I believe this falls under rule 10 (No negative and harmful behaviour) which specifically mentions harassment, which this is a form of. That being said we can only moderate our own platforms, not the rest of the world.

Church wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:46 pm Calling it out of game behavior is a little disingenuous. You cannot disconnect the affect these actions have on people in game just because it didn't necessarily happen in game. As pointed out, we don't punish people for things that happen outside of PkHonor platforms in most cases but the argument is that the negative consequences of these actions is in PkHonor's area and intentionally so.

No one is claiming that what happens on other platforms has nothing to do with PkHonor. The limitation is first and foremost a practical one. We cannot moderate everything that happens everywhere. It's not doable and we do not have the necessary access for it either. At best people can send us screenshots, but we have no way of verifying who is behind a username on another service or that the screenshot hasn't been altered (or is taken out of context).

The other side of it is that our jurisdiction has to end somewhere. We only really have the right to enforce our code of conduct on our own platforms, not everywhere else. If two of our players also happen to have a fight on Facebook it's really not our place to step in and apply our rules to that. At the extreme you could even argue that if two PkHonor players have a fight IRL it would somehow be our responsibility to intercede. I don;t think it's right that just because you sign up for a game you are forced to obey that game's code of conduct throughout your entire life. As much as it sucks in these cases, outside of the game only real world laws apply. People are allowed to be dicks to each other to some extent. Just because they play the same game(s) doesn't mean the moderators of those games should take it upon themselves to dispense justice for everything that happens between them.

Church wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:11 pm

Rapsey wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:38 pm It is most definitely against the rules and punishable. Although it's not explicitly mentioned in our rules I believe this falls under rule 10 (No negative and harmful behaviour) which specifically mentions harassment, which this is a form of. That being said we can only moderate our own platforms, not the rest of the world.

Church wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:46 pm Calling it out of game behavior is a little disingenuous. You cannot disconnect the affect these actions have on people in game just because it didn't necessarily happen in game. As pointed out, we don't punish people for things that happen outside of PkHonor platforms in most cases but the argument is that the negative consequences of these actions is in PkHonor's area and intentionally so.

No one is claiming that what happens on other platforms has nothing to do with PkHonor. The limitation is first and foremost a practical one. We cannot moderate everything that happens everywhere. It's not doable and we do not have the necessary access for it either. At best people can send us screenshots, but we have no way of verifying who is behind a username on another service or that the screenshot hasn't been altered (or is taken out of context).

The other side of it is that our jurisdiction has to end somewhere. We only really have the right to enforce our code of conduct on our own platforms, not everywhere else. If two of our players also happen to have a fight on Facebook it's really not our place to step in and apply our rules to that. At the extreme you could even argue that if two PkHonor players have a fight IRL it would somehow be our responsibility to intercede. I don;t think it's right that just because you sign up for a game you are forced to obey that game's code of conduct throughout your entire life. As much as it sucks in these cases, outside of the game only real world laws apply. People are allowed to be dicks to each other to some extent. Just because they play the same game(s) doesn't mean the moderators of those games should take it upon themselves to dispense justice for everything that happens between them.

Sure, limitations to enforcement aside I don't mean our rules should apply 100% of the time. My argument here is that doxxing a player you know through PkHonor to other PkHonor players, even if on a non PkH platform, is the kind of thing we might want to act on. I think it's similar to RWT. 100% of the planning for RWT could happen on an entirely different website that obviously has nothing to do with PkH but it will affect our game at the last step. People doxxing someone in WhatsApp could lead to serious negative consequences (players quitting as an example) in game even if the info was never repeated in PkH.

I don't know what a proper form of enforcement could even be for that kind of thing could even be so I won't make an arguments for changing it, that's just how I feel about it.

Church wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:11 pm Sure, limitations to enforcement aside I don't mean our rules should apply 100% of the time. My argument here is that doxxing a player you know through PkHonor to other PkHonor players, even if on a non PkH platform, is the kind of thing we might want to act on. I think it's similar to RWT. 100% of the planning for RWT could happen on an entirely different website that obviously has nothing to do with PkH but it will affect our game at the last step. People doxxing someone in WhatsApp could lead to serious negative consequences (players quitting as an example) in game even if the info was never repeated in PkH.

I don't know what a proper form of enforcement could even be for that kind of thing could even be so I won't make an arguments for changing it, that's just how I feel about it.