PkHonor

Hey there! So, recently there has been some discussion going on about the incorrect accuracy of combat (more specifically PvP combat). That's why we decided to dive into the code responsible for handling and calculating accuracy. Since these formulas/calculations are basically unknown to the players, we decided to publicly write something about them. Give the player base some insight and explain how the calculations work, and how they decide the accuracy percentage.

So lets hop into it. This might be a bit math-heavy, but I'll try my best.

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A defence-roll and an attack-roll are calculated. One is done by checking the attacker (the attack-roll) and one is by the player that is getting attacked (defence-roll). These two are later compared, but keep those in mind.

These 'rolls' are both calculated by the following formula:




The 'EQUIPMENT_BONUS' is simply the bonus of the equipment (either in attack or defence).
The only notable thing here is that if the rolls are PvP-based, the adjusted bonusses will be used (so custom whips and capes act like regular variants).


The 'EFFECTIVE_LEVEL' can be calculated by following the next few steps:

• Get the current skill-level (so including level boosts).
• Multiply it by the world stat boost (exclusive to Honor-accounts).
• Multiply by the % bonusses prayers offer.
• Round value's decimal up.
• If it is PvP combat AND the player is using turmoil, add 15% of the other player's level (in both attack-roll and defence-roll).
• Add in attack style bonus (accurate gives +3, controlled +1 / defensive gives +3, controlled +1 and long range +3).
• Add 8.0.
• If attack-roll, multiply by 'void-bonus' (Strange name, I know, see info below).
• Round value's decimal down.

Next, depending on what style and offensive/defensiveness, each style checks for a few items and/or cases:




Ranged / ATTACK_ROLL:

• If player is wearing Slayer helmet and monster is (slayer assignment OR npc dummy), add the Slayer helmet % accuracy bonus.

Melee / ATTACK_ROLL:

• Multiply by the special attack accuracy.
• If player is wearing Slayer helmet and monster is (slayer assignment OR npc dummy), add the Slayer helmet % accuracy bonus.
• If monster is (demonic OR npc dummy) and...
  • ... player is wearing Silverlight, add +40% accuracy.
  • ... player is wearing Darklight, add +50% accuracy.
  • ... player is wearing Arclight, add +70% accuracy.
• If player is wearing Dragon hunter lance and monster is (draconic OR npc dummy), add +20% accuracy.
• If player is wearing Korasi's sword and monster is Pest Control monster, add +30% accuracy.
• If player is wearing Berserker necklace and monster is TzHaar monster, add +20% accuracy.
• Apply Dharok's accuracy set bonus.

Magic / ATTACK_ROLL:

• If player is wearing Slayer helmet and monster is (slayer assignment OR npc dummy), add the Slayer helmet % bonus.
• If player is fighting Verzik Vitur and wearing Dawnbringer, set to max accuracy.

Ranged / DEFENCE_ROLL:

• Multiply by the special attack accuracy.
• If it is PvP combat, subtract 35% of the calculated defence.

Melee / DEFENCE_ROLL:

• If it is PvP combat, subtract 35% of the calculated defence.

Magic / DEFENCE_ROLL:

• If opponent is wearing Brimstone ring in 1/4th of the cases, subtract 10% accuracy.

NOTE:
If calculating the magic DEFENCE_ROLL, the EFFECTIVE_LEVEL will exist for 30% of defence level and 70% of magic level. This is done by calculating both, and then multiplying the defence value by 0.3, and the magic value by 0.7.



Now we have an ATTACK_ROLL and a DEFENCE_ROLL. One of the two rolls will be a larger number than the other, and we can now calculate the accuracy %:





Filling in the formula will give a probability between 0 and 1. Multiply this by 100.0 to get your %-value! Voilá, that's your % chance of hitting.

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So, I hope that was informative. Feel free to calculate the accuracy % of your favorite equipment

Okay so, funny thing is. The accuracy formulas are perfect. 100% the same as OSRS' formula. Like, I tested it against all formulas I was able to find, but they're just the same. Every multiplication, every check, every addition. They all give exactly the same results. I even went ahead and used DPS calculators to get accuracy % and compared those with our %.

So the inaccuracy most likely has to do with everyone being level 99 defence, boosted to 125, swimming in defensive equipment. But at the end of the day, the formula's are 100% like they should be. Well, almost like they should be. As a sharp few of you might've noticed, there's only 1 difference: we subtract 35% of the melee and ranged defence in PvP combat (coloured 'em for ya).

Why, you ask? Well, this is something that was changed around by Mike because the community felt like they were too inaccurate. Mage doesn't get this reduction, so that explains why so many players were experiencing inaccurate magic spells. However, 'fixing' the combat formula would mean we would only hit more 0's.

So this is primarely a call to the PvP-community on what to do. Add the reduction to mage aswell? Remove the reductions? What do you think?

I'd love to hear about it! So feel free to let me know what you think.

Beautiful thread. Now that everything is in fact the same as OSRS, we need to address the overpowered items that we have. Including chaotics, nex gear, pvp gear, custom whips, and tents. Some of these items need to be nerfed, while others just need balancing.
viewtopic.php?f=134&t=78382
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=78392

Along with the fact that everyone has 99 defence, we all have access to cheap high defence gear in statius, vesta, zuriels, and morrigans.


For all of the high level armour, we should try to give them niche uses. Torva for example, is currently best in slot for everything; melee and ranged defence, attack, strength, and prayer. This leaves no room for other end game gear like Justiciar. I would suggest leaving Torva as the best in slot for strength and defence, while removing its prayer bonuses. Then make Justiciar best in slot for Prayer and Melee Attack bonuses. Same idea will have to be applied to virtus and ancestral once that is released.

Last time I read something this long, it had a bloke named Raskolnikov in it.

EDIT: Brilliant thread from a person in your position, Thoby. I applaud the effort.

This is very good and very useful because like you mentioned I think we found the root cause of this issue. Now my personal opinion is that the 35% reductions are good for the combat system, and should be added to mage as well, effectively solving the issue people are having. Obviously getting rid of those for the other stats would do no good without some other kind of change.

I also took the liberty of graphing the functions which I'll add as attachments. The x-axis (Attack roll) is the left axis if you're looking out from the origin (thanks Newton) and the y-axis (Defence roll) is the other one, the output for accuracy is the height.

For the magic defense, I'd support that change but maybe let people on the test server test it for a long enough time? Could even make PK tourneys (with live server rewards) go through on the test server so the general "feel" can be gotten before anything is set in syone. I think the numbers do not say as much as the "feel" to pretty much anyone. Tourneys like these could be seen as a "bughunter"-type thing which incites people to test while having fun, but instead of finding bugs, it's about protecting combat fundamentals.

Wish it was possible to have a way for you to tweak the formulas constantly while doing extensive tests. Are you able, or would Mike be willing to, allow you to fully push updates only on the test server or program a "live" formula tweaker which can be used by you while on there?


As Adam said for melee: Everyone has easy access to OP stuff and 99 def.
I'm starting to think that the OP stuff isn't the main root of the issue though, since wearing full offensive gear but with rune armor, the fight will still go like 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 45 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 37 0 0 0 ....

Also, why does nex gear provide an accuracy bonus? Aren't they supposed to be tank armor even in PVP? Or was this added due to health bonus being messed around with in wildy? (No idea if it adds or does not add the HP bonus in pvp these days)

I don't seem to find any mention online where nex gear increases accuracy. If it was like this pre eoc, sure. But then the bonusses themselves are flawed too: Why does (if the nex gear bonus is intentional) Zuriels, gear that can be bought with some pkp, grant 20% bonus while Virtus, expensive nex gear, only provides 10%?

PVP gear isn't semi rare on PKH like on (pre)EOC. Copying their stats but making them easy to obtain makes it really broken. Since so many players have this set, I feel like considerably nerfing all PVP gear is the only way to go. If this proves a bit too controversial, maybe their durability should be increased to make up for it.

Pre-EOC, turmoil added a flat 15% +15% of target lvl for atk and def, and another flat and whopping 23% +10% of target lvl for strength. So turmoil is actually nerfed on PKH. I guess the path we want to take with PKH can be decided here.
I think there's 4 main options.

• Make turmoil as it was pre-EOC and fully accept curses into the game. They will be much stronger since damage is also increased, but it will be correct. My opinion is that if this were to happen, curses should be free. End of story.
• Make curses as they are now on RS3. This 'version' makes more sense because it leeches to make up for the seemingly lower bonusses, which is why you cant use leeches with turmoil to begin with. Dunno how I feel about adding this though.
• Give turmoil a slight nerf and buff at the same time. Make the def bonus only +10% and leave the accuracy bonus at +15%. Players without curses will get better chances to hit on them than they do now. Players both using curses wont cancel eachothers attack bonus out anymore. This isn't exactly a kosher way of handling stuff as it's durectly messing with pretty known mechanics but it could prove vital to improve accuracy and the overall 'feel'
• Remove curses.

As a final note, I do think prayers should be considered and talked about as #1 priority in the accuracy discussions. I believe the balance should be built around this because they add substantial bonusses and are permanent unlocks that every PKer will use regardless of all the different gear we have. ,

So that one magic change last year just put it to something correct while we had it wrong since the dawn of time. Which is what I was used to. And not everyone in osrs I fought had 99 def and magic including myself so don't know how close it's together to eachother.
Makes me wonder what the old magic situation was. With melee I always said in the past it's the 99 defence doing the tanking work but it's just so strange hitting them 0s in max gear.

But going from a freeze like 80% of the time to a freeze 20% of the time just is a big thing and will need to change all pking strategy. I'll become a sneiging boltragger I guess. If magic stays like this ranged already has been buffed too being a counter to magic a lot more than it used to be.

Iron adam wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:54 am Beautiful thread. Now that everything is in fact the same as OSRS, we need to address the overpowered items that we have. Including chaotics, nex gear, pvp gear, custom whips, and tents. Some of these items need to be nerfed, while others just need balancing.
viewtopic.php?f=134&t=78382
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=78392

Along with the fact that everyone has 99 defence, we all have access to cheap high defence gear in statius, vesta, zuriels, and morrigans.


For all of the high level armour, we should try to give them niche uses. Torva for example, is currently best in slot for everything; melee and ranged defence, attack, strength, and prayer. This leaves no room for other end game gear like Justiciar. I would suggest leaving Torva as the best in slot for strength and defence, while removing its prayer bonuses. Then make Justiciar best in slot for Prayer and Melee Attack bonuses. Same idea will have to be applied to virtus and ancestral once that is released.

Question is though, do players even want it to be nerfed? From a game-integrity perspective I agree that a rebalance should happen. Looking at the Custom Whip thread though, 30% of the players don't agree.

I think we should be moving towards a deliberate distinction between PvP and PvM. The PvMers like the current system (hence we have such an active PvM scene), and the PvPers are harmed by this. Let's hop off the 'OSRS is perfect' thing, because PkHonor is just different (99s for everyone, better gear obtained easier, etc). Why not balance the game in which it's just right for PkHonor? Make a solid system for more risk = more reward. Look into the things that are bothering PvPers, like unbalanced Chaotics and PvP equipment. Lower the defence by whatever feels right for the PvP community. As far as I know, people actually enjoy the 35% defence decrease- and if it's more enjoyable, why not keep it? Most PvP RSPS'es out there have a broad spectrum of custom OP items, and they're enjoyed by many. I think we've gotten obsessed by the idea that OSRS is the holy grail and the #1 example, but we're a custom server with a different type of playerbase.

I agree that some niche uses would be interesting. BIS should be more variable to the situation, and I believe that's something that would only improve the game.

Jousi wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:58 pm Brilliant thread from a person in your position, Thoby. I applaud the effort.

Thanks Jous, we debated on keeping it secret and quite; but the community deserves us to be 100% transparent. Better to discuss it openly than decide in secrecy.

Pvm porn wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:19 pm This is very good and very useful because like you mentioned I think we found the root cause of this issue. Now my personal opinion is that the 35% reductions are good for the combat system, and should be added to mage as well, effectively solving the issue people are having. Obviously getting rid of those for the other stats would do no good without some other kind of change.

I also took the liberty of graphing the functions which I'll add as attachments. The x-axis (Attack roll) is the left axis if you're looking out from the origin (thanks Newton) and the y-axis (Defence roll) is the other one, the output for accuracy is the height.

Spoiler: show

Attack roll is bigger

graph2.PNG

Defence roll is bigger

graph3.PNG

I even learned to use Desmos to a level I didn't know was possible and stitched them together

graph5.PNG

Wonderful statistics! Great appliance.

Lieven wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:22 pm For the magic defense, I'd support that change but maybe let people on the test server test it for a long enough time? Could even make PK tourneys (with live server rewards) go through on the test server so the general "feel" can be gotten before anything is set in syone. I think the numbers do not say as much as the "feel" to pretty much anyone. Tourneys like these could be seen as a "bughunter"-type thing which incites people to test while having fun, but instead of finding bugs, it's about protecting combat fundamentals.

I could set up something like that, but to be honest; who would bother? I think the best way of testing it would be to implement it onto the real server, and get feedback directly from the community. For testing new (buggy) content it's always great to have our players test it, but this isn't something that will be noticeable by just a few test fights. It's probably more noticeable by the players that are experiencing the problems themselves.

Lieven wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:22 pm Wish it was possible to have a way for you to tweak the formulas constantly while doing extensive tests. Are you able, or would Mike be willing to, allow you to fully push updates only on the test server or program a "live" formula tweaker which can be used by you while on there?


As Adam said for melee: Everyone has easy access to OP stuff and 99 def.
I'm starting to think that the OP stuff isn't the main root of the issue though, since wearing full offensive gear but with rune armor, the fight will still go like 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 45 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 37 0 0 0 ....

I could set up a test server for it, but like I mentioned above, I don't know if it would be visited often. And I tested quite a lot to be sure, but it all seems to be accurate (tested using example gear from pking vids by @The underdog). The combat rolls were exactly the same as the OSRS calculators/formula, I even showed the rolls as an overlap interface with the accuracy %, switching out equipments.

Lieven wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:22 pm Also, why does nex gear provide an accuracy bonus? Aren't they supposed to be tank armor even in PVP? Or was this added due to health bonus being messed around with in wildy? (No idea if it adds or does not add the HP bonus in pvp these days)

I don't seem to find any mention online where nex gear increases accuracy. If it was like this pre eoc, sure. But then the bonusses themselves are flawed too: Why does (if the nex gear bonus is intentional) Zuriels, gear that can be bought with some pkp, grant 20% bonus while Virtus, expensive nex gear, only provides 10%?

Call it 'custom content'. Just something to make the equipment more interesting. We could remove the accuracy bonus if the community wants it though. The equipment doesn't provide the HP bonus in PvP, so that was nerfed already.

Lieven wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:22 pm PVP gear isn't semi rare on PKH like on (pre)EOC. Copying their stats but making them easy to obtain makes it really broken. Since so many players have this set, I feel like considerably nerfing all PVP gear is the only way to go. If this proves a bit too controversial, maybe their durability should be increased to make up for it.

The original idea behind the PvP equipment is that it provides new players to participate in PvP without being completely outmatched by veteran players. Which is, in the core, a great concept. However, it removes quite some variety and risk = reward. I agree that it should be nerfed (or even removed).

Lieven wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:22 pm Pre-EOC, turmoil added a flat 15% +15% of target lvl for atk and def, and another flat and whopping 23% +10% of target lvl for strength. So turmoil is actually nerfed on PKH. I guess the path we want to take with PKH can be decided here.
I think there's 4 main options.

• Make turmoil as it was pre-EOC and fully accept curses into the game. They will be much stronger since damage is also increased, but it will be correct. My opinion is that if this were to happen, curses should be free. End of story.
• Make curses as they are now on RS3. This 'version' makes more sense because it leeches to make up for the seemingly lower bonusses, which is why you cant use leeches with turmoil to begin with. Dunno how I feel about adding this though.
• Give turmoil a slight nerf and buff at the same time. Make the def bonus only +10% and leave the accuracy bonus at +15%. Players without curses will get better chances to hit on them than they do now. Players both using curses wont cancel eachothers attack bonus out anymore. This isn't exactly a kosher way of handling stuff as it's durectly messing with pretty known mechanics but it could prove vital to improve accuracy and the overall 'feel'
• Remove curses.

As a final note, I do think prayers should be considered and talked about as #1 priority in the accuracy discussions. I believe the balance should be built around this because they add substantial bonusses and are permanent unlocks that every PKer will use regardless of all the different gear we have. ,

I might have not made this clear in my post: turmoil already provides the exact PvP boost. The +15% accuracy is mixed in the prayer boosts, and the level bonus is on top of that. So we have 100% correct Turmoil. I personally not know how the Curses are enjoyed currently. To fall back on what I mentioned earlier: I'd rather choose for enjoyment than for a OSRS-remake. But balance is most important. That's why PvP equipment isn't welcomed, that's why Chaotics aren't welcomed: they mess up the balance. If Curses is also one of the things that mess up balance, sure, let's adjust or remove them.

We're always battling between the: we want new players to be able to participate in PvP V.S. we want risk = reward. This is something that is hard to balance, because those two are opposites.

The underdog wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:53 am So that one magic change last year just put it to something correct while we had it wrong since the dawn of time. Which is what I was used to. And not everyone in osrs I fought had 99 def and magic including myself so don't know how close it's together to eachother.
Makes me wonder what the old magic situation was. With melee I always said in the past it's the 99 defence doing the tanking work but it's just so strange hitting them 0s in max gear.

But going from a freeze like 80% of the time to a freeze 20% of the time just is a big thing and will need to change all pking strategy. I'll become a sneiging boltragger I guess. If magic stays like this ranged already has been buffed too being a counter to magic a lot more than it used to be.

I don't think it has been wrong since the dawn of time. Mike mentioned it was because of player feedback, so it was changed at a later point. Nevertheless, if the playerbase also want a defence decrease to Magic, that's fine too. If that's what's more enjoyable, I'm all for it.

Thoby wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:52 pm

I don't seem to find any mention online where nex gear increases accuracy. If it was like this pre eoc, sure. But then the bonusses themselves are flawed too: Why does (if the nex gear bonus is intentional) Zuriels, gear that can be bought with some pkp, grant 20% bonus while Virtus, expensive nex gear, only provides 10%?

Call it 'custom content'. Just something to make the equipment more interesting. We could remove the accuracy bonus if the community wants it though. The equipment doesn't provide the HP bonus in PvP, so that was nerfed already.

I personally think it doesn't make that much sense because the nex gears pre-eoc are supposed to be tank sets (their stats and hp bonus were based around that concept)
On RS3 currently, it's what people call 'power armor': In torva's example, it has the correct level 80 offensive stats (which are pretty dang good) but level 75 defensive stats. This is common with relatively cheap gear on RS3. It surprises me that PKH's version looks more like this than the pre-eoc.

I personally think that we should give the community what they expect, which is more pre-eoc. Torva usually equals bulky defense stats and a HP bonus. I believe that a new player would have an easier time vs someone who has the HP & def bonus as opposed to someone who has the def and offensive bonus. Can't have the best of two worlds :/

And sure, you can argue people at edge will eat to max HP. That's the PKer being an asshole and he'll be looked down upon by other PKers for doing so. I see no difference between safing in rune vs safing in torva. PKers will come to a consensus over time just like they did in the far away past that it's not really nice to use protection prayers unless you're in deep or both agreed/one of the parties is nhing. People could also argue that there's so little chance that new players will be able to hit through the HP&Def bonus. But then again, chances are kinda supposed to be against you if you (in T40 armor) try to fight someone in T80 armor lol

Lieven wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:22 pm Pre-EOC, turmoil added a flat 15% +15% of target lvl for atk and def, and another flat and whopping 23% +10% of target lvl for strength. So turmoil is actually nerfed on PKH. I guess the path we want to take with PKH can be decided here.
I think there's 4 main options.

• Make turmoil as it was pre-EOC and fully accept curses into the game. They will be much stronger since damage is also increased, but it will be correct. My opinion is that if this were to happen, curses should be free. End of story.
• Make curses as they are now on RS3. This 'version' makes more sense because it leeches to make up for the seemingly lower bonusses, which is why you cant use leeches with turmoil to begin with. Dunno how I feel about adding this though.
• Give turmoil a slight nerf and buff at the same time. Make the def bonus only +10% and leave the accuracy bonus at +15%. Players without curses will get better chances to hit on them than they do now. Players both using curses wont cancel eachothers attack bonus out anymore. This isn't exactly a kosher way of handling stuff as it's durectly messing with pretty known mechanics but it could prove vital to improve accuracy and the overall 'feel'
• Remove curses.

As a final note, I do think prayers should be considered and talked about as #1 priority in the accuracy discussions. I believe the balance should be built around this because they add substantial bonusses and are permanent unlocks that every PKer will use regardless of all the different gear we have. ,

I might have not made this clear in my post: turmoil already provides the exact PvP boost. The +15% accuracy is mixed in the prayer boosts, and the level bonus is on top of that. So we have 100% correct Turmoil. I personally not know how the Curses are enjoyed currently. To fall back on what I mentioned earlier: I'd rather choose for enjoyment than for a OSRS-remake. But balance is most important. That's why PvP equipment isn't welcomed, that's why Chaotics aren't welcomed: they mess up the balance. If Curses is also one of the things that mess up balance, sure, let's adjust or remove them.

We're always battling between the: we want new players to be able to participate in PvP V.S. we want risk = reward. This is something that is hard to balance, because those two are opposites.

Curses are pretty controversial. Can't really edge PK without them, so everyone uses it. I think there's no issue if both parties are using turmoil, since they kind of cancel eachother out at first sight right? The issue lies with people who don't have access to curses.

If new players look into it, they'll see big numbers to unlock it. What is it, 3k and 3b PKP or w.e? It's not a lot if you know the ins and outs of the game but for a fresh player it looks so daunting psychologically speaking. It gets even worse when they hear premiums get a discount. They'll think PKH is something it's not: A P2W server. The discounts for 99s are also unappealing to new people only interested in PKing.

It's 100% understandable people wont like these things. They came on the server not expecting it to be a spawn server, but at least being able to PK somewhat quickly as the server name is PKhonor and it's advertised as "far more than 'just' a PK server" on Runelocus. (And "improved combat" lol)

So, if they haven't quit by now, they'll try to postpone getting curses since they just wanna PK. They spend a metric ton (in their eyes) on getting 70 prayer and scratch together a welfare PK set, maybe even with only a dds as spec weapon. And then they proceed to PK. Chances are, it wont be a new player but an experienced player they'll fight against. They'll be absolutely shat on because, taking gear out of the equation, their prayers are outclassed by a lot.

This brings us to the main questions that have to be asked:
1) Are curses OP if used against people who also have curses?
2) Are they OP if used against people without curses?
3) Can a server even have a decent PKing community if curses are a thing?


Now, 1 & 2 are easy to answer. 1: Not really. 2: Yes.
3 is a different story. I've played servers without curses and had a lot of fun PKing. I've played servers with curses and dare I say, PKing was a bit more fun there.

The difference between PKH and the other servers with curses was that, if the server was PKing oriented, curses were free. I know applying this to PKH might be a message going like: "can't beat them? Join them" but honestly, if that's the price for a balanced wildy, I think the choice is quickly made.

I think removing or nerfing curses (mainly turmoil, wrath and soulsplit. Leeches are a whole different thing) would mess with the balance for PvM and would cause an outrage in the current majority of the community, so that's not really the way to go IMO. PVM may be too easy but its a way more delicate issue than just removing curses.


So yeah TLDR make curses free

Thanks for coming to my TED talk