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Re: Selling 7m Bronze Arrows
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:11 pm
by Patel
Raj wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 7:53 pm
@Patel worth mentioning the difference though between owning unobtainable items for your own pride, and trying to sell them years after obtaining them for profit, demanding compensation if anything is done to fix the issue of the junk items being traded at absurd prices. I understand some items this is accepted because they’re effectively donation items. I don’t believe these fall under that category
Don't they typically coincide though? Like a Legend's Cape or Initiate is the best example, they're junk everywhere else in RS(PS), but consistently used as long term investments on PkH. They're also used as a status symbol (pride). This was the case for the first 6 or 7 years of PkHonor, they only became donation items several years ago. But they started off as uniques. Wooden shields too. They were turned into donation items later on, and I think Rapsey has a detailed post somewhere about the pro's and con's of that kind decision. Not saying bowls should become donation items too, but rather that we certainly have accepted some unobtainables as a part of the economy in the past. It was easier with Initiate/Legends/Woodens IMO due to their volume. The problem seems to be more obscure items/items with less volume. Officially, the decision to pay like 1T for the one-off Gilded set was stated to be a mistake. IMO it was a great idea. But that's a difference of opinion - it's clearly more involved to do it case-by-case. But there's also a pretty limited number of one-offs when compared to something like Initiate sets.
If selling bowls for 100B is ok, then players don’t have any assurance that junk items are junk items, allowing for scams. If we openly acknowledge bowls aren’t 100B, and try to make it so that they’re never sold for that price, someone’s feelings are hurt. Seems like a lose-lose
Why not openly acknowledge that they're not 100B without trying to make sure they're never sold at that price? Do you mean declining requests to increase the value in ::prices, or physically intervening on every possible trade to make sure it never happens? I.e. if some new player is told a bowl is 100b, and you say 'no it's definitely worth a lot less than that, you're getting scammed', isn't it entirely their choice to buy it for 100B after being informed? I can agree that there's a problem if new players lack access to this information (if ::prices become manipulated or something). It's not like they're reasonably priced anymore, I remember Woodens being as low as a few bil and even then, it wasn't exactly tough to find out that they were expensive for a reason. I think the idea that someone lacks assurance/this leads to scams isn't invalid, but also that the responsibility to prevent a scam extends to communicating the validity of the pricing.
I feel like a lot of this stems from PKH being an RSPS and not a game developed by some studio - there are countless degeneracies in item spawns and methods of obtaining them that are just not seen or overlooked. And of course it leads to one-offs/un-obtainables over, and over, and over again. I'm not saying y'all should give up on trying to resolve the issues that stem from this, but sometimes the choice is between 'fixing' by rolling with it and figuring out how to inform people and 'fixing' by outlawing, tracing steps, and removing items from the game.
Azu rite wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:29 pm
I demand to have my glitched method of obtaining palm leaves reinstated and for them to be tradeable again so I can sell the ones I have for 100b. I have not been able to cope with the emotional scars caused from this server years ago whenever people were scaming at the duel arena with this item, causing Mike to make them unobtainable and untradeable. I shall return to the server once my demands have been met, otherwise I shall remain logged out of my account that I poured hours upon hours on.
I demand to have my Torva back. I have not been able to cope with the emotional scars... Otherwise I shall remain off the staff team that I dedicated many
pours of vodka to hours upon hours on...
Re: Selling 7m Bronze Arrows
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:23 am
by Ryun
Patel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:11 pm
Don't they typically coincide though? Like a Legend's Cape or Initiate is the best example, they're junk everywhere else in RS(PS), but consistently used as long term investments on PkH. They're also used as a status symbol (pride). This was the case for the first 6 or 7 years of PkHonor, they only became donation items several years ago. But they started off as uniques. Wooden shields too. They were turned into donation items later on, and I think Rapsey has a detailed post somewhere about the pro's and con's of that kind decision. Not saying bowls should become donation items too, but rather that we certainly have accepted some unobtainables as a part of the economy in the past. It was easier with Initiate/Legends/Woodens IMO due to their volume. The problem seems to be more obscure items/items with less volume. Officially, the decision to pay like 1T for the one-off Gilded set was stated to be a mistake. IMO it was a great idea. But that's a difference of opinion - it's clearly more involved to do it case-by-case. But there's also a pretty limited number of one-offs when compared to something like Initiate sets.
I thought woodens were obtained legitimately through their respawn point behind varrock by wildy ditch (same spawn as osrs) but an update removed the spawn with an update accidentally thus superinflating the item?
(i could be completely wrong but i swear thats what i heard years ago)
Re: Selling 7m Bronze Arrows
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:33 am
by Iron adam
IMO the only situation in which a person should be compensated is if they donated for an item. Any item that was made discontinued due to a bug, client update, or any other unintentional method should be treated like any other item that is not obtainable in game. If an item has a place in the game, it should be added and no compensation given to those who speculated. There was never any promise that these items would remain discontinued "rares". People are literally just gambling. I say this as the owner of several "discontinued" items.
Re: Selling 7m Bronze Arrows
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:38 am
by Patel
Iron adam wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:33 am
IMO the only situation in which a person should be compensated is if they donated for an item. Any item that was made discontinued due to a bug, client update, or any other unintentional method should be treated like any other item that is not obtainable in game. If an item has a place in the game, it should be added and no compensation given to those who speculated. There was never any promise that these items would remain discontinued "rares". People are literally just gambling. I say this as the owner of several "discontinued" items.
I agree if they remain in the game naturally. If the items are being expunged or price manipulated by the staff for the purpose of expunging them, then I'm not so sure I agree. That's not organic
@Ryun I mean it's the same with initiate/legends, you could get them if you played PkHonor early enough in time as much as you wanted. They became unobtainable through some later update
Re: Selling 7m Bronze Arrows
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:21 am
by Fungamer
Iron adam wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:33 am
IMO the only situation in which a person should be compensated is if they donated for an item.
Re: Selling 7m Bronze Arrows
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:47 am
by Empty
Iron adam wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:33 am
IMO the only situation in which a person should be compensated is if they donated for an item. Any item that was made discontinued due to a bug, client update, or any other unintentional method should be treated like any other item that is not obtainable in game. If an item has a place in the game, it should be added and no compensation given to those who speculated. There was never any promise that these items would remain discontinued "rares". People are literally just gambling. I say this as the owner of several "discontinued" items.
Re: Selling 7m Bronze Arrows
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:43 pm
by Raj
Feel like a happy middle ground is making the items untradeable, unless they’re someday actually needed
Re: Selling 7m Bronze Arrows
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:21 pm
by Jumping bug
I'd like to clarify that not all 3 of these items were obtained (by someone else) by means of a corrupt admin or through a glitch. To see this claim being made is a bit concerning to me when this is not actually the case. Misinformation and lies really doesn't make you look good. If you do not in fact know the origin of these items, please do yourself a favor and stop embarrassing yourself before I blast you publicly for this.
As I believe Raj stated earlier, the dramen branch may have been somehow obtained through a glitch from the quest. I have no idea how this item came about.
For the Banana, I believe it was a spawn in 2011 in Karamja that was later removed.
And to my knowledge, the bowl was spawned in by Rapsey himself and given to a player that no longer plays who then sold it to me. The bowl was given as a reward for a player's hard work in helping Rapsey. To me, this may not be a donation but I think that player still has a right to either keep the item they earned or to sell it like they did to me because they earned it by working hard.
Again, I love that we can come together and talk about this stuff and give our opinions but let's keep the information factual. Do not pretend you know what you're talking about when you don't or I'll start calling you out on it.
Re: Selling Collection Items and Unobtainables
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:09 pm
by Raj
I think those all qualify as glitches/what would today be considered staff abuse, to be fair. Worth nothing Rapsey also can do literally whatever he wants with the game at any given moment so no one's saying he's wrong for doing it, it's just a reality of the situation that it wasn't obtained through necessarily fair means. A lot of players have done a lot of really hard work and got absolutely nothing but a thanks for it.
Re: Selling Collection Items and Unobtainables
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:49 pm
by Iron adam
Jumping bug wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:21 pm
The bowl was given as a reward for a player's hard work in helping Rapsey.
Damn thats all?
