PkHonor

Empty wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:55 pm
With how fast the damage per second with blowpipe currently is, it's legitmently best in slot for everything.
You can kill bandos with it before taking 20 damage, and bandos is definetly not weak to ranged (this is just one of the examples)
ofcourse there's bosses like wildywyrm which i wouldn't suggest using it for, but it will deal the most damage per second against it aswell.

Great examples of what you mentioned, corp, nex.

Bandos isn't weak against range but it's not strong enough with our current meta either. My examples with corp & nex actually illustrate what I'm trying to say: They're old bosses with outdated stats and there was an oversight in the balance when adding chaos bp. Rather than making bp not hit as fast, ranged (or bolt) defence should be buffed if ranged (or bp) is not supposed to be used at that certain boss. The meta for certain bosses will be like it is on OSRS, but players can still have certain places to screw around with their ak47.

@Thoby has posted statistics of how overpowered chaos blowpipe is with the maximum gear compared to everything else.
which is this:

That being said, blowpipe doesn't have any huge bonuses against certain style like twisted bow does.

AFAIK Thoby received a lot of criticism on it since while it might look OP on paper, many factors weren't taken into account like the cost of using it & which bosses a blowpipe would be used against. i.e GL killing nex solo with chaos bp. You might pull off a kill or two but you're definitely not getting bang for your buck and your survivability will be bad.

The main issue with chaos bp I can see rn is that people use honors with a chaos bp setup to support their mains at bosses, which is absolutely broken because there's no cost & no risk associated with PvMing as honors because you can teleport back if you die and you can spawn food/get pray in combat.

Nerfing bp wont really do anything since people will just start using other strong comp setups to have their ez pvm. That's simply a problem with having the honor rank (or even our current custom content in general) in the first place.

DPS isn't all there is to choosing gear to PvM with. It has to be affordable or replenishable & you've gotta be able to survive before even considering increasing your damage output. Otherwise we would all be using unholy + chaos rather than souls + chaos.

Twisted bow is best in slot against everything with high mage offensive stats.
Blowpipe is the best in slot for all around PvM actions.

so with how it currently is Blowpipe > Twisted Bow

Well yeah. Bp not being supposed to be bis everywhere is something we all agree on.

Edit: Tbow on rapid will absolutely be the best all-round ranged option combined with a chaos cape both DPS wise and efficiency wise. Players have already been hoarding dragon arrows in anticipation of CoX release. There's no scales needed to refill it either and while it'll use up a fair amount of ammo, it'll probably be more bang for your buck to use tbow & arrows rather than bp & darts.

Tbow is still going to be less DPS than Blowpipe almost everywhere(Zuk/Olm in large scales/not much else tbh), simply because it does not attack every tick. BP is literally only broken because it hits every game tick, and that automatically makes it better than every other possible choice when looking at raw damage stats. However, I don't really see the need to nerf BP or raise bosses defence, that will only create a price jump for all items currently in game from those bosses, which will make it even HARDER for a newer\poorer player to upgrade their gear. I would support comp effects not working in chambers for x amount of time on release, but really what would be the point? Just release it and let it become another thing we get to farm fast as hell with our machine guns. Eventually the eco will be so saturated with drops that it wouldn't have mattered anyway. CoX is MED LEVEL content on OSRS, we don't need it changed so much that it becomes end game here, that would take a lot more time and effort than has already been put into this project.


EDIT: On the topic of rewards, I think it would be best if pray scrolls and claws were left out completely, unless you're going to wipe every one currently in the game (and reset anyone who has unlocked the prayers) and force every account to get them via chambers. Realistically, just leave em out though. And for the Metamorphic dust, is that going to be a reward from the start, or are you planning to make CM's? Or simply have Olmlet come with the ability to morph?

Skeletal mystics are done, now to get started on the Great Olm and finishing the Muttadiles. Then on to the finishing touches!

Thank you for bringing forward the issues of the droptables and the chaos comp + blowpipe combo. We definitely have to address the chaos + blowpipe issue, but sadly there seems to be no one solution that everyone can agree on, so we'll have to make a judgement call. Seeing as how much disagreement is over what we should do with it, you can bet that some people will be pissed one way or another, but I suppose that's already the case anyhow (people not being satisfied with how some things stand as they are).

As for the drop tables, I hope we can figure out a couple of well fitting solutions, which we can poll to let the community have their say in what they think should be done about it.

Mike wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:01 am Skeletal mystics are done, now to get started on the Great Olm and finishing the Muttadiles. Then on to the finishing touches!

Thank you for bringing forward the issues of the droptables and the chaos comp + blowpipe combo. We definitely have to address the chaos + blowpipe issue, but sadly there seems to be no one solution that everyone can agree on, so we'll have to make a judgement call. Seeing as how much disagreement is over what we should do with it, you can bet that some people will be pissed one way or another, but I suppose that's already the case anyhow (people not being satisfied with how some things stand as they are).

As for the drop tables, I hope we can figure out a couple of well fitting solutions, which we can poll to let the community have their say in what they think should be done about it.

The best solution will be to rebalance our existing items. This allows our current items and the new items to have niche uses.

See these posts for more info/discussion.

Iron adam wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:56 am

Kenneth wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:33 am If we continue down this road, fresh content will be made pointless and this game will die. Dont give us what we want give us what we need. We need a rebalance.

Lets take Chambers as an example, There are 12 items on the unique list. Three of these items are already in the game (dex, arcane and claws) The elder maul has a 135 crush and 147 str bonus while our chaotic maul that can be obtained just by chopping trees has a 167 crush and a 155 str bonus. The dragon hunter crossbow will not be able to keep up with the dps of the chaos blowpipe (nothing does) not only will this item be without a use but every range weapon in the future will also be made useless. Already before the content has been released 5 out of the 12 potential drops are completely worthless.

The Ancestral set also may be power creeped due to not only our Virtus armor but 3rd age druidic aswell. Testing would have to be done to find out which is better but if its also on the fringe, you'll see players gravitate to Virtus because of it inevitably cheaper cost and health point bonus. Making that 8 of 12 items on day of release.

This isn't the first time this has happened either. Looking at the Ghrazi rapier, the chaotic rapier being not only a stronger option but also cheaper and more easily obtainable (even to ironmen)

I hate seeing how much time and effort that gets put into these updates and gets waisted because of power creep. This will only continue as more updates come along.

All facts. It's not about nerfing our current OP items. It's about rebalancing them so there is a place for all this new content. There are so many different stats and special effects that we can manipulate so the new items and our old items have their place in the game. Maybe we make one of the rapiers have higher strength while the other has higher accuracy. Items like the Dragon Hunter CB and Lance are great examples of balanced items. They are best in slot at certain places but not the whole game. We do need to fix items like the whip of chaos and blowpipe/chaos comp. Until we address all of these things, people will continue to complain about new content being useless.

Daily reminder that there are things we can do:
viewtopic.php?f=134&t=78382
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=78392

Mike wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:01 am

Spoiler: show

Thank you for bringing forward the issues of the droptables and the chaos comp + blowpipe combo. We definitely have to address the chaos + blowpipe issue, but sadly there seems to be no one solution that everyone can agree on, so we'll have to make a judgement call. Seeing as how much disagreement is over what we should do with it, you can bet that some people will be pissed one way or another, but I suppose that's already the case anyhow (people not being satisfied with how some things stand as they are).

In my professional opinion maybe comps should be disabled from cox.
People will be fine with it after a short period of time:)

Empty wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:54 am

Mike wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:01 am

Spoiler: show

Thank you for bringing forward the issues of the droptables and the chaos comp + blowpipe combo. We definitely have to address the chaos + blowpipe issue, but sadly there seems to be no one solution that everyone can agree on, so we'll have to make a judgement call. Seeing as how much disagreement is over what we should do with it, you can bet that some people will be pissed one way or another, but I suppose that's already the case anyhow (people not being satisfied with how some things stand as they are).

In my professional opinion maybe comps should be disabled from cox.
People will be fine with it after a short period of time:)

No, this is a horrible idea in my more professional opinion… what is the point of grinding nearly 1K hours for ench comp specifically to help and also make late game content more enjoyable if it just gets disabled from the game? Pretty senseless I say..

At the end of the day nobody is forced to use specific gear, if you think that COX will be lazy or not fun by using chaos comp/souls comp just don’t personally use it.. It’s such a shame to constantly see a few people go on about chaos comp and how it ruins the game when they’ve got an opinion to use it or not.. I agree it should get a slight nerf which I already suggested aka nerf the ranging ammy and make anguish BIS. Even though i still believe unholy comp + scythe is BIS for quite a few bosses.

I will say that there are specific times where chaos comp and BP out dps like corp and maybe Sara GWD, however those aren’t two places that are typically busy.. I say just nerf the ranging ammy to be shit, give zenytes another reason to be expensive and a money maker.

Will be ok2 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:43 pm At the end of the day nobody is forced to use specific gear, if you think that COX will be lazy or not fun by using chaos comp/souls comp just don’t personally use it.. It’s such a shame to constantly see a few people go on about chaos comp and how it ruins the game when they’ve got an opinion to use it or not.. I agree it should get a slight nerf which I already suggested aka nerf the ranging ammy and make anguish BIS. Even though i still believe unholy comp + scythe is BIS for quite a few bosses.

It's not about what I wanna use, it's about chambers presumebly being competitive content due to speedrunning, and if you can use chaos comp it's all about RNG, with the right layout you could probably do 8 minute no preparation runs.

Having to use the oldschool maximum gear, max cape and what not would just add little bit more variety to Chambers when you'd actually have to do something else than just AFK.
I understand it being available for ToB since it's slightly harder, but CoX is already fast to learn, takes like up to 4 runs to do flawless no death raids.

So i will stand by my statement of disabling atleast Chaos comp from cox unless / until it's balanced, which it hopefully will be soon enough.

What's really the problem? Is it actually the chaos comp cape, or is it the blowpipe? Or the ranging ammy? nobody seems to take issue with using a souls tent and a chaos comp, so maybe the comp cape isn't actually the problem? You could nerf the blowpipe too.

All bosses became too easy once death was released anyways, especially pre-nerf.

I think the biggest issue as it pertains to CoX is definitely the drop table. Someone made a good point earlier about 8 out of 12 potential new items being useless on release. I love Chambers of Xeric and nobody wants that to be dead content upon release, so I think brainstorming solutions for items on the drop table and a rebalance of the BIS weapons (not necessarily the cape) is worth a look.

At the end of the day, this is a private server not OSRS. The prime reason I started playing this was to not spend 12 hours for 10k exp and not waste my life doing quests. I would argue that end game content should be easier to get to on a private server, but I agree that making everything way too easy would make the game boring.

Comp capes are allowed in ToB, so I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed in CoX. However, I think an equipment rebalance and consequentially a drop table buff should be in order to maximize the fun that we've all been waiting a while for, CoX.

Muttadiles
Great Olm
great olm under work, good shit

Bamf status wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:43 pm Comp capes are allowed in ToB, so I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed in CoX. However, I think an equipment rebalance and consequentially a drop table buff should be in order to maximize the fun that we've all been waiting a while for, CoX.

An interesting take could be to disable the comp cape effect on things that are deemed endgame content to maintain competitiveness. Inferno, ToB, CoX are great candidates. The PB's would obviously have to be reset but aside from that, we're good. Let people machine gun the rest of the bosses, they're not hard anyways and as you said, we're still an RSPS. Chaos comp may be strong but it's not like the item prices are crashing - they've been going up for years. It's way harder to start out as a new player. I am almost 100% certain there'll be a fair amount of players who will cba bossing (as much) if the effect is completely gone or reduced to that 30% chance on a double hit proposal. That'll just make it even harder for new players to get bandos and what not because the prices will once again go up.


Or rather than disabling the effect at those bosses, give players a downside to using comp at the endgame bosses. PB would only count if you don't use a comp. Droprates could be drastically increased when not using a comp cape to do the endgame content. Inferno could for example give a guaranteed elite or even master clue scroll when completed without a comp cape. Completing ToB without a comp cape could give you a higher chance on receiving pet, scythe and viturs notes. CoX could be similar, maybe it could even have some exclusive drops for which you'll only get a chance to get if you're not wearing a comp cape. Xerics design notes, anyone?