PkHonor

Tom061202 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:53 pm

Also, about nerfing pernix, wouldn't this leave a few people quite unhappy when the prices crash?

Game integrity > people getting upset over their hoarded pernix sets being devalued

Also this would be a rather gradual process. Ancestral has been ingame for a while now and virtus is still far from worthless. I dont see why it would be any different with masori.

Fungamer wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:56 pm Game integrity > people getting upset over their hoarded pernix sets being devalued

100%!

Fungamer wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:56 pm Also this would be a rather gradual process. Ancestral has been ingame for a while now and virtus is still far from worthless. I dont see why it would be any different with masori.

Yes, however I think there is a big difference between having a better item added and having the ex-BiS item nerfed down to let the new item take it's place...

Oh, and also;

Fungamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:30 pm Edit: For Missouri/Mississippi/Macarena armor, I like what @Tom061202 had to say.

Lol

Ok, massive disclaimer on this post that we've had close to no discussions yet as a team about most of ToA, outside of establishing that when we have the cache update, we're ready to start working on it, and the goal is to get it done quickly and present a nice user experience. I don't even know the stats on the new armor, or what it's called, whether it'll be BiS or not if nothing is rebalanced, etc.. I'm vaguely familiar with the layout and raid mechanics (some boss mechanics but not really) and what that would require in terms of a generic code model to ease distributed development, but that's the most thought I've personally put into it.

So that being said

Tom061202 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:53 pm if this armour isn't BiS, will it be the same for Osmumten's fang and Elidinis' ward?

I have no idea, my position is that we should use the OSRS stats and nerf other BiS gear to avoid powercreep, but there's been no discussions on it. I feel like the idea that the BiS armor sets should come from raids 3 is a fairly agreeable idea, and that powercreep is bad, and that ranged is OP right now with the help of pernix accuracy buffs, but we'll be seeing what we decide on.

If so, my concern is, will it even be worth it to do raids 3 if the drop rates are similar to cox... Cause that will mean these items will be worth less than the current BiS items (Which are obtained through way easier/less time consuming NPCs).

See the above, my guess is that the team is on board with doing balancing such that the most difficult content provides the most rewarding gear, but who's to say, I don't want to promise that's the stance on it and how it will be.

Also, about nerfing pernix, wouldn't this leave a few people quite unhappy when the prices crash?

Personally (emphasis on personally), I don't see a reason to consider "my item value will go down" a valid complaint when doing balancing changes. Or most changes for that matter. The economy is a product of the game mechanics, it shouldn't be the other way around. There are exceptions when the economy creates an actual hindrance to player's enjoying the game or some of its content, but in the case of nerfing Pernix, players will need to go to Nex for Torva for the forseeable future. If we were killing off Nex as a piece of content, then yeah maybe it would warrant a different solution. But if my options are "nerf Pernix because raids 3 should drop BiS gear" or "don't nerf pernix and make raids 3 items dead content on release because some people will be sad their items aren't BiS anymore", I'm choosing the first.

Again, haven't looked into the stats or done any accounting for Pernix accuracy bonus or new gear special effects or anything yet. I'm working under the assumption that the 10/15/whatever% bonus for Pernix accuracy will make it better than the new items. If that's not the case, great, because I genuinely don't feel like thinking about how to rebalance items.


edit: osrs wiki says the armor set has ranged strength bonuses. think it's fine how it is then, kinda a torva full helm/justiciar faceguard situation. the more gear diversity the better.

Raj wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:24 pm Again, haven't looked into the stats or done any accounting for Pernix accuracy bonus or new gear special effects or anything yet. I'm working under the assumption that the 10/15/whatever% bonus for Pernix accuracy will make it better than the new items. If that's not the case, great, because I genuinely don't feel like thinking about how to rebalance items.

edit: osrs wiki says the armor set has ranged strength bonuses. think it's fine how it is then, kinda a torva full helm/justiciar faceguard situation. the more gear diversity the better.

Thank you for the clarifications! And yes like you just said in your edit... Masori is already better DPS than our current Pernix. Range attack bonus of 82 vs 77 for Pernix, +8 range strength vs 0. But it's basically just another, better looking, elite void because of it's extremely low defense... In Osrs one of the good perk of the new Masori armour is that it's the new best magic defense in the game while on here it wouldn't even be close.

As you said though, the problem isn't the new OSRS equipment's stats, but the stats of the current ***RS3*** Nex gear we have on here... And I agree that these should be nerfed rather than the new items being way buffed.

So about that, would nerfing Torva down to it's OSRS stats instead of it's RS3 stats we currently have be a viable option or is it too far off and too big of a nerf? Pernix and Virtus are not on OSRS so do we just tune it down proportionally to the Torva tune down?

Current OSRS and RS3 torva stats here: Edit: Tbh, I personnally wouldn't mind the defense nerf considering that +18 strength bonus compensating, especially if it is going to make new raids items BiS.

Tom061202 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:00 am So about that, would nerfing Torva down to it's OSRS stats instead of it's RS3 stats we currently have be a viable option or is it too far off and too big of a nerf? Pernix and Virtus are not on OSRS so do we just tune it down proportionally to the Torva tune down?

I'm not sure. I try to stay out of balancing unless there's a good reason for it. I don't think Torva needs a nerf simply because there's no other items being hurt by Torva's stats.

FWIW, I don't think elite void is bad, or that Masori having lower defence than Pernix is bad, it's just forces players to choose between defence and DPS, which is fine to me, but I'm sure it'll be discussed.

I would say no to the quest being a requirement, but Maybe one down the line to Maybe make the raid more worth doing, like better drop rate if the quest is completed. Also, would like to see the puzzle rooms as without them, its litterally a "free raid"

Also, test server when?

Topman666 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:26 pm I would say no to the quest being a requirement, but Maybe one down the line to Maybe make the raid more worth doing, like better drop rate if the quest is completed. Also, would like to see the puzzle rooms as without them, its litterally a "free raid"

i agree with having puzzle rooms, but I dont see the point of adding the quest if it's optional. I think either add the quest req or don't.

Fe grim wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:33 am

Topman666 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:26 pm I would say no to the quest being a requirement, but Maybe one down the line to Maybe make the raid more worth doing, like better drop rate if the quest is completed. Also, would like to see the puzzle rooms as without them, its litterally a "free raid"

i agree with having puzzle rooms, but I dont see the point of adding the quest if it's optional. I think either add the quest req or don't.

Could have it be a req for doing raids3 with pkh-custom invocations and perhaps some sort of item or buff (like how you dont need to do correcting history to kill nex, but having the bandos kite as a result from the quest is pretty much bis shield for nex)

We 100% need invocations and puzzle rooms, the raid will become boring without them and most people will be done with the raid in a month.

If we were to release the puzzles & invocations later people will just grind the collection log out before the invocations & puzzles come and it'll be dead content for alot of people.

The only thing that could be added later down the line is the ornament kits for the pet, weapons. (guarantied at certain invocation lvl)

i've been loving ToA on osrs and look forward to do it on Pkhonor butt... i believe it'll require serious balancing in the armours and rebalancing of the defence from the bosses

-Option 1-
Remove Nex entirely and get OSRS Nex with osrs Torva, Zaryte vambraces, Zaryte crossbow.
Give people a certain amount of GP for their nex peices.

-Option 2-
To have less people be mad about their nex gear

-Make Pernix dismantlable to make (fortified) Masori, instead of armadyl like osrs,
-Make Torva dismantlable to make OSRS Torva (fortifed Torva custom?) - this doesn't rly have anything to do with Tombs of Amascut but w/e
-Make Bosses actually weaker to certain attack styles, so the Osmumten's fang will be viable & other items.
-FINALY A WAY TO USE OUR SOUL RUNES -Tumeken's shadow
-Make it actually hard to complete high lvl invocations.

Feel free to pm me or ask me any questions or discuss ToA.

~TheOwnage