PkHonor

Church wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:06 pm

Patel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:03 pm ...and hell, no one's trying to stage a coup and take over the staff team either (nearly happened in 2012, lol).

hahaha yea....

toxic

Thierryu1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:08 pm And just because it used to be a wild west on here doesn't mean further improvement (how small they my be) shouldn't be act on because it's "not as bad as it used to be".

I agree with this as well, I don't mean to say that we shouldn't continue to try and remove the bad. But I also think we need to reframe just how 'bad' these things actually are. Obviously with the wild toxicity just leads to people not using it, which leads to a dead wilderness (as we have now, and have mostly had for years). This is probably the biggest ongoing discussion on PkHonor - how to fix the wilderness. There are things that can be coded, and there are things that could be done rule-wise as well. But we really gotta hash those out. I think that no matter what changes we make coding/rule wise, some assholes will always find a way to ruin the experience. We should talk about that kind of situation and see what can be done to avoid that. What constants can we remove/make workarounds for? Genuinely asking, because I don't know.

Thierryu1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:08 pm Most of the toxicity these days come from Wilderness related problems, so yea there is room for discussion and room for improvement on how to act on this as a mod and as a player.

Could you give some examples of what you consider toxic behaviour?

Rapsey wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:15 pm

Thierryu1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:08 pm Most of the toxicity these days come from Wilderness related problems, so yea there is room for discussion and room for improvement on how to act on this as a mod and as a player.

Could you give some examples of what you consider toxic behaviour?

Making accounts with names that are clearly targeted to bait a person and not simply banning the account.

Edit: You actually stated this once Rapsey

If someone made an account named Rapsnolife I would ban it too tbh. It's pretty obvious that's just an attempt to aggravate and provoke. If you're gonna try to be toxic through account names instead of chat then your "mute" will take the form of that account being banned, since an account name can't be muted.

It's also worth pointing out that Naznolife only has 2 minutes of timeplayed on it. That hardly makes it a true ban, more like not allowing you to create an account with that name.

So where do you draw the line? Because if Dogshit nher (no offense Antonio) is accepted to bait Best nher (don’t like the worm anyways), then you’re picking and choosing which toxic behavior is acceptable and from who....

Rapsey wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:15 pm

Thierryu1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:08 pm Most of the toxicity these days come from Wilderness related problems, so yea there is room for discussion and room for improvement on how to act on this as a mod and as a player.

Could you give some examples of what you consider toxic behaviour?

Every single day the same people hating the same person (cc) and when that person logs out they start talking shit about him and the cc behind their back.
The dox threats that came out of this and just the nonstop continues-no-end-in-sight "bantering" in yell day in and day out are tiresome and not a nice look for new people that log in and see yell spammed about sad little things getting stretched way out of proportion. (This also still goes on on Discord).
I agree that banter and light flaming should not be punished but to make up a gazillion reports on certain people or attack them personally or try to bait/flame just out of pure spite is tiresome to look at, hear about etc etc. Yes I could close my yell or put each person on ignore but that seems more like turning your head away and act like it's not happening anymore.

Nobody is perfect on here, lord knows I ain't a saint whatsoever, but I and many others (most of them not pkers) know when to stop. Pking has the abillity to keep a fire going and that's imo where the problem lies. The fact you get killed by the person you don't like is something that can keep you in a cycle of retaliation what on a small server like this can become personal quite fast. I don't think there is much to do about it but that's pretty much what I see as an outsider looking in.

Again, obvious banter and inside humor are a whole different story and it's pretty obvious when it's one or the other going on in yell. I'm not defending anyone here because yes, those people who get attacked are no saints either but the way it's handled right now is not how I think it should be handled. But I don't know at this moment how to effectively approach this.

Elon musky wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:26 pm
So where do you draw the line? Because if Dogshit nher (no offense Antonio) is accepted to bait Best nher (don’t like the worm anyways), then you’re picking and choosing which toxic behavior is acceptable and from who....

I see the point you're making, but I do believe there is a difference. It has something to do with rapsnolife being an attack on the person, while Dogshit Nher is an attack on the title of "best nher" - it's a competition.

I think for a long time there was a lot of sentiment that we need to lax up on the rules in the wilderness, because baiting, insulting, etc. are just part of how that machine works. By a long time I mean literally years. All in the spirit of competition. So I think it makes sense that when a username is made primarily for the purpose of challenging a position (like "best nher") that it's ok because it's not about attacking the individual/who they are, it's about the status/competition. You're making a statement when you call yourself the best nher, and you're making a statement when you call yourself "dogshit" and still beat the "best" nher. If you lose, then you're just living up to your name

Elon musky wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:26 pm
So where do you draw the line? Because if Dogshit nher (no offense Antonio) is accepted to bait Best nher (don’t like the worm anyways), then you’re picking and choosing which toxic behavior is acceptable and from who....

But I started with 'worst nher'... They all baited me...

Patel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:54 pm

Elon musky wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:26 pm
So where do you draw the line? Because if Dogshit nher (no offense Antonio) is accepted to bait Best nher (don’t like the worm anyways), then you’re picking and choosing which toxic behavior is acceptable and from who....

I see the point you're making, but I do believe there is a difference. It has something to do with rapsnolife being an attack on the person, while Dogshit Nher is an attack on the title of "best nher" - it's a competition.

I think for a long time there was a lot of sentiment that we need to lax up on the rules in the wilderness, because baiting, insulting, etc. are just part of how that machine works. By a long time I mean literally years. All in the spirit of competition. So I think it makes sense that when a username is made primarily for the purpose of challenging a position (like "best nher") that it's ok because it's not about attacking the individual/who they are, it's about the status/competition. You're making a statement when you call yourself the best nher, and you're making a statement when you call yourself "dogshit" and still beat the "best" nher. If you lose, then you're just living up to your name

Also we have to draw the line somewhere. In my opinion, a parody account isn't a problem as long as it's not offensive or impersonating a player. (No cc clan - hello no cc/ worst nher -best nher -dogshit nher)

But then a recent example is a player making parody accs on roddy ricch cc (roddy puss, roddy sucks), which I can less appreciate. So we told the player another name seems more appropriate.

Apart from that, we need to allow some banter... Can't always be too serious.

Uim legolas wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:17 pm

Patel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:54 pm

Elon musky wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:26 pm
So where do you draw the line? Because if Dogshit nher (no offense Antonio) is accepted to bait Best nher (don’t like the worm anyways), then you’re picking and choosing which toxic behavior is acceptable and from who....

I see the point you're making, but I do believe there is a difference. It has something to do with rapsnolife being an attack on the person, while Dogshit Nher is an attack on the title of "best nher" - it's a competition.

I think for a long time there was a lot of sentiment that we need to lax up on the rules in the wilderness, because baiting, insulting, etc. are just part of how that machine works. By a long time I mean literally years. All in the spirit of competition. So I think it makes sense that when a username is made primarily for the purpose of challenging a position (like "best nher") that it's ok because it's not about attacking the individual/who they are, it's about the status/competition. You're making a statement when you call yourself the best nher, and you're making a statement when you call yourself "dogshit" and still beat the "best" nher. If you lose, then you're just living up to your name

Also we have to draw the line somewhere. In my opinion, a parody account isn't a problem as long as it's not offensive or impersonating a player. (No cc clan - hello no cc/ worst nher -best nher -dogshit nher)

But then a recent example is a player making parody accs on roddy ricch cc (roddy puss, roddy sucks), which I can less appreciate. So we told the player another name seems more appropriate.

Apart from that, we need to allow some banter... Can't always be too serious.

Indeed, and this follows exactly what I'm saying - "roddy sucks" is an attack on the person/their character, not some sort of competitive action or idea. So it's in poor taste, meant to be offensive, and shouldn't be allowed.

Church wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:06 pm

Patel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:03 pm ...and hell, no one's trying to stage a coup and take over the staff team either (nearly happened in 2012, lol).

hahaha yea....

fuck bro what do we do

I have made accounts flaming myself and the mods banned them, corruption runs deep