Third-party software + Addons

[Marklauten]

I'm affraid we'll need to deny the suggestion.

This is the last official position I can find on it. There have been other discussions I believe, but it's more or less this.

I don't know how true it is today, and of course, from a player's perspective it's sort of a "why is that my problem?" situation.

I don't think 1:1 AHK is unfair in any capacity either, but concerns over bot detection could be enough to justify not allowing it.
When talking about 'fairness', we're not here to tell you exactly how to play the game. You don't *have* to enjoy the skilling grind, it is okay to think that the grind sucks and you'd rather put in the work but not the attention.

Some people misclicking more than others is not a part of the game design - that's entirely a player's own problem. You can also avoid misclicks and rapidly speed up the process in an equivalent manner by playing on a tablet; think about it, you could add any anti-capacitive like acrylic to the screen and place it on top of where you don't want touch to register, leaving room only for the clicks you do want to register. Do we disallow use of tablets on PkHonor? Of course not, the idea that 1:1 AHK specifically is unfair doesn't make much sense. On the contrary, it's basically the foundational principle. 1 action should always map to one input. The only exception is when the game devs say otherwise (i.e. "make X" option while skilling).

That's different because you have to actually go through the motion of clicking on the screen where it wants, in a unique area determined by the skill. With 1:1, I could turn nearly every skill in the game into the same set of keybindings, pressing "1234567890" and configuring AHK to ignore/call an input delay on the ones which create proper timing for the skill. It's pretty much as close as you can get to botting.

If that's ok, then I don't see why setting up an AHK script that does a full skill provided the input key is being held down the entire time. What's the difference between holding "uuuuuuuuuuuu" on a script that autoprogresses its state and running my fingers down "1234567890". From there the question is, do I even need to be holding it down or just at my computer when it runs?

Beginning discussions on things like those are things that we've discussed in private chats as not wanting to debate, so the official stance (from the last information I could find on this topic, someone can feel free to speak up if opinions have changed) is that 1:1 isn't allowed.

Edit:
Also, technically speaking, remappings in AHK which only remap given some conditional (say a certain pixel is in a certain color range) are technically 1:1. It's literally botting if you implement it well enough.

I get you stating an official stance on AHK 1:1. I am not using AHK. I am reassigning buttons on my keyboard. AHK stands for AUTO Hot keys. Auto specifying the problem with AHK. The program can automatically step from action to action. HENCE AUTO. What I am doing is only reassign pre-existing functions that EVERYONE has access to. If I had something someone doesn't have access to, aka if I was able to preform multiple actions with one click. That is a problem. But everyone has the ability to switch from using mouse to keyboard and vice versa. You are telling me if I had no arms I wouldn't be allowed to play? No that is one of many reason there is an ability to use keyboard functions to preform mouse actions.

Secondly AHK and all of this has been around for a very long time. OSRS made it legal because functionality it is the same as using a mouse. Also they cannot detect it. When was this ruling that raphsey gave out? a few years ago? It isn't hard to implement processes to determine bots from people using hotkeys. If it was an issue in the past it would take a week if you are not familiar with the topic to set up a routine to identify people using AHK vs Botting itself. Also now that AHK has been around for a while, OSRS can absolutely tell the difference. Maybe the server logs are just outdated?

[Patel]

Right, let's normalize our terminology here. I misspoke when saying AHK, I just mean 1:1 key mappings. One button push = one coordinate transformation. Another button push = a click. Nothing more, no pauses, no automation. Thanks @Marklauten for reminding me.

That's different because you have to actually go through the motion of clicking on the screen where it wants, in a unique area determined by the skill.

You misunderstand me - I wrote that to dismiss the idea that "randomness" or "misclicking" is somehow part of the equation. I demonstrated that you can circumvent misclicks using a tablet and not break any rules, thus, misclicks are not a part of this discussion. They are a player's own problem. Think about it, someone with exceptional hand-eye coordination will have better XP/Hr than someone with lackluster hand-eye coordination. That's just life. If anything, 1:1 key remappings actually make the playing ground even, since anyone can tap 3 or 4 buttons in a repetitive pattern. So now everyone has a chance to get the same, high xp/hr.

Edit: even then though, hand eye coordinate will determine how fast and how consistently you do it. Really can't fight biology here.

If that's ok, then I don't see why setting up an AHK script that does a full skill provided the input key is being held down the entire time. What's the difference between holding "uuuuuuuuuuuu" on a script that autoprogresses its state and running my fingers down "1234567890". From there the question is, do I even need to be holding it down or just at my computer when it runs?

Hopefully this has already been addressed. We were using different definitions of AHK. Obviously you cant do this. The difference between holding a key and pressing multiple is that there are multiple actions mapping to multiple inputs in the latter- you already know this though so no point debating further.

Beginning discussions on things like those are things that we've discussed in private chats as not wanting to debate, so the official stance (from the last information I could find on this topic, someone can feel free to speak up if opinions have changed) is that 1:1 isn't allowed.

This is the opposite of what you should do. If it's a good idea you better be ready to bring it to the table and defend it when people clearly disagree. There is no virtue in hiding it behind closed doors - this is how we get big threads and dissent in the community in the first place. You've gotta be open about this.

But yes, 1:1 key remappings are NOT allowed as far as I can tell. The reason has nothing to do with the morality of 1:1 key mappings, it has something to do with bot detection (which is fine). This discussion (as far as I can tell) is about the morality and clearing up the fact that there's absolutely nothing wrong with using 1:1 on principle, it's just that the bot detection can't tell the difference and we'd rather not ban people playing legitimately.

Maybe we can @Rapsey to see if this has changed (or if our understanding is askew)? I know we hate long threads but knowing whether this is still the case could put the matter to rest (for now).

[Monys]

you are telling me if I had no arms I wouldn't be allowed to play? No that is one of many reason there is an ability to use keyboard functions to preform mouse actions.

I don't have the time to grind for 20 hours a day, surely I am allowed to bot, I mean AHK, I mean 1:1 macro, I mean use an auto clicker because my mouse doesn't click as fast as Nazuths mouse

[Raj]

Ok so if you're not using AHK, to what degree are you able to remap mouse movement? I know windows has MouseKeys, which give you a roughly controllable distance in the vertical or horizontal directions (you can make it more precise but it's only good for a few tasks in OSRS). It's objectively harder than just using your mouse except in a few cases. Anything which isn't like that where you can program mouse coordinates seems unfair to me. If you're not using software which automates moving your mouse to a location, then I don't see it being an issue. Especially if you have no arms, though if someone actually had no arms, it'd be undeniable that RSPS just might not be their thing. But if I can press 1 to click the bank booth, 2 to click the preset button, etc, that is what I would call excessive. At that point, the number key update for cons was just a waste of dev time, because actually controlling your cursor is inefficient and a waste of time anyway.

[Patel]

Ok so if you're not using AHK, to what degree are you able to remap mouse movement?

The idea is moving the cursor from (x_1, y_1) -> (x_2, y_2) for arbitrary start and end positions. Each individual instance of such a transformation would be mapped to a key.

Edit: You'd need to use a different button to click, but it could be the same button. I.e. Num1 -> Num5 (click) -> Num 2 -> Num5 (click) -> Num1 -> ....

I don't think that the process of such a coordinate transformation is different from native mousekeys, and it effectively is the same as using a tablet (I swear this is the last time I'll mention a tablet) - I don't know how/why the server would differentiate between the two, aside from seeing that it's the same coordinate each time.

IMHO, As long as you're putting in the work on your keyboard and not violating 1:1, I don't see the reason to be afraid of a bot ban. The goal here is to not remove legitimate players.

[Thearlygamer]

lol is this just a thread to find out how close he can get to botting without getting called a botter?

[Rapsey]

I think enough has been said about our official position on this but just to confirm: no, officially 1:1 macro's are not allowed either. Many people claim that they are but those who do are either drawing conclusions from their own experience or misconstruing what staff members have told them. To be clear, "you probably won't get caught" is not the same as "it is allowed". Unfortunately many people make the leap from hearing one thing and interpreting it as the other.

So much for the official part of my reply. For the rest of this post I will be participating in the discussion like anyone else so what I write below is solely my personal opinion, not a declaration of the server's official policy. Please be warned that I will not look kindly on it if anyone quotes me out of context to make it seem like something is officially allowed because "Rapsey said he thinks it's fine".

For the most part I agree with you that 1:1 action rebinding should not be considered botting. However I strongly disagree with what you consider 1:1.

In my opinion, if you wanted to rebind your enter key to one of your mouse sidebuttons, or have your control key function as a left click, that is totally fine. This is indeed simple 1:1 action remapping which does not automate the gameplay in any way. Having sequences of actions is also not a form of automation in itself. If instead of alternating right click and left click you would rather alternate control and alt so you don't risk accidentally moving your mouse, why not. Anyone who has a laptop with physical mouse buttons could do the same.

Where I disagree is your interpretation of what constitute an action. "Move my mouse to the right location" is not a single action IMO, it's a complex action that cannot be equated with a simple button press. I'm sure we can all agree that in something like a first person shooter, "find what looks like the head of another player and put my mouse over it" is just a plain old aimbot. You can argue all you like that you're remapping a "single action" in a way that's more convenient for you, it's cheating all the same.

I think the OSRS wiki's definition or botting/macroing which you show in your video words it quite well: it's using software to automate a task. That is what you're doing: using a simple action to trigger software which automates a more complex action for you. The same cannot be said about simply rebinding one key to another. That is not botting because it doesn't automate anything. What you're talking about is definitely automating a task, even if you just hardcode the mouse coordinates.

As Raj has already pointed out, if you adopt this definition of "one action" you can use macro's to automate virtually anything. After all there's no reason the same key should always do the same thing as long as it's one action, right? I could program a single button to move my cursor over my butler the first time I press it. The second time it clicks to open my bank. The third time it loads my preset. The fourth time it moves the cursor to my gilded bench. And so on and so on. I could even write some code that automatically changes what the next keypress will do based on what's happening on the screen. Before you know it I'm going straight to 2B construction with my eyes closed and all I have to do is keep pressing a single button, and it could be taken so much further still...

If you ask me this is just loopholing, interpreting things in such a way that you get to automate the entire process (i.e. bot) while still being able to claim that it's not botting. We can go back and forth on the exact definition of a macro or an action but anyone with half a brain can see that it is just botting in disguise. In fact knowing how people would try to stretch the definition of a 1:1 macro is one of the things that led us to decide against allowing them officially. Instead of letting people cheat legally if they're being clever about how they set it up we chose not to allow it at all.

[Church]

A few things to start: (please note I was typing this and Rapsey posted his while I was formatting, if I sound like I'm repeating him it's cause great minds think alike)

• You misunderstood me when I said 1:1 macro's are fine, I've clarified a few times so I'd appreciate it if you stopped misquoting me.
• I have also clarified that they are not allowed and told you this discussion would need to be made to change that, not to clarify what is already allowed. 1:1's are not allowed right now.

I would also then like to say that I disagree with almost everyone. I think the flaw in the argument is that any remapping that takes a key and makes it move a mouse to a specific location isn't even a true 1:1. Even though the output result, where the mouse is, is equivalent in both situations the initial input action is not.

@Patel said he doesn't think that misclicks are a part of this but I think it is, we do not design are rules to level the playing field from skill indifferences, we design them to have a baseline level of fairness. Press a single button takes far less effort, skill, coordination, time, etc etc than moving the mouse to a specific location. Some skills grinds are built off these mistakes (see: construction) and how well you can avoid them.

I get that people might still use the term 1:1 to describe that, but I think it's important that we're honest in this discussion and admit it's not the same thing. It's much easier,.

So now we move on to why it's not allowed even though a fair bit of work still and not an automated process? Here's a few of my ideas of why it should be disallowed:

• We want to keep some level of true competition based around player skill with the default base game with no "tools".
• If we were to allow it we would have to change our bot check procedures in some way, else people would just say "oh I'm using a 1:1, but I was looking at the other screen for the few minutes you did a bot check on me."
• We would likely have to specifically approve a specific program or type of program to allow this, else we'd just be knowingly giving people the ability to more easily bot and automate because their actions might look the same as the keybind based 1:1 macro visually and in the logs (keep in mind those logs are for Rapsey's eyes only, the extent of the processes we have to check for these things is known by him and him alone.)
• As much as it might be easy for Mark to tell us all how smart he is multiple times for setting this up, I think it's also fair to say not everyone will have the ability to do this even if it was allowed. It'd be like adding in a new BIS item and telling 20% of the server they weren't allowed to equip it.

Normally for the sake of argument I might play devil's advocate against myself here, cause truth be told my personal opinion is basically the same as Rapsey's, but I just don't think it's worth the time or the headache to rework things to allow for it. Just play the game how it was intended to be played.

[Thearlygamer]

I said 1:1 macro's are fine

[Marklauten]

Okay, Just to be clear, the following is true in the definition of Server Rules:

1.) ANY 1:1 remap or reassignment of keys are illegal. To include:
a.) Remapping a key to preform the action of any other button or key.
b.) Remapping an action to include mouse movements with any other action or tool OTHER than the mouse.

Basically, you have to have original "factory" settings to play this server. Any modifications, remapping, key assignment, etc, is explicitly illegal and against the rules.

2.) The opinion of admins and owners do include the idea that there is no difference between pressing 'enter' to click vs left mouse button, but there are additional issues bot-checks etc that affect this decision.

Follow up question?

Why is altering my computer against the rules of the server? For example, if I switched some of my graphical settings around I could have a specific advantage over another player, yet that isnt "factory" settings and how the game was supposed to be played? Just because I use a separate key to click doesn't mean I am circumventing the rules of the server. I have to click just like everyone else. This brings me back to the disability aspect. What if I was missing fingers and had to have a custom keyboard to be able to click my mouse (that I cant click cause I'm missing fingers) Am I not allowed to play since that isn't how the Server was designed to play?

Again, part 2 is a discussion.