PkHonor

Ahmed elrahi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 5:34 pm secondly, and equally as important, the input from ownership is lacking in abundance and needs fixing too, whether that comes in the form of mike and rapsey actually (finally) being more vocal and sharing their views, opinions and inputs on certain topics, or them assigning a specific person a specific role dedicated to community engagement and management - both options require their input, but the latter is far less work on their part and would only require them to be in contact with said community manager; as a community-driven server the issue here is they're simply not engaging with their community in the slightest, to rewind to my first point, there's been absolute radio silence on the wiki and site issues from them for over a month now, and as far as updates go i doubt i even need to go into any real detail - all we're asking for is the occasional forum post, the occasional discord teaser screenshot, let us know what's going on and what you're working on/planning on working on, keep us in the chain of information, because in the end as much as we might've all forgotten it, the community is what's keeping this server alive.

third, and finally, development itself is great - between raj, brant, niels, lieven and thoby (come back to us, sweet prince) they've all pumped out more updates in the last few years than i could count in the entire period i've been playing this game, the issue is that when they develop something and it takes 6 months (i'm being incredibly generous there) to be reviewed, bughunted and subsequently released, i can hardly blame them for a lack of motivation or desire to continue working on the server, they NEED the ability to push updates themselves at this point, and if i had to nominate someone for the power and capacity to do so, i'd have it be raj - but by all means work that out for yourselves, any result is a good result at this point; even if it means having someone appointed a role of something along the lines of "head developer" for the sole purpose of pushing updates, or as stated in previous posts on the same topic, make it a group vote, have the developers able to push updates themselves provided they've all had access to, reviewed and vetted the code involved with said update in the same way price changes are pushed.

(hi i'm fe nis, can't get into my fucking forum account so here i am instead - in order to meet my god-given troll quota for the month, please see below:)

unban flaiza and promote him immediately to admin, thank you, goodbye

Remind me in like 3 hours to respond to this.

I clearly was the trigger for this whole situation to occur so I feel like I should throw my input.

The Mystery Box stuff has been going on for years, why now is it an issue for Church? There have been MANY current staff members that have taken part into this activity, I will not disclose any names. It seems like Church is continuing to target me for absolutely no reason. For those who aren't aware about the MBOX stuff, It's a player made deal between two or more players who will purchase credits, then buy an inventory of mystery boxes from the donator store. Who ever pulls the most face valued inventory in price checker wins the other player(s) mbox loot, and whatever they agreed to risk. There has never been anything shady about it, nobody has ever gotten scammed. It's really just a CC thing that we've done for years, it's thrilling at times. You can argue that it's breaking the rules, but its easily debatable in my opinion. 90% of the staff team is aware of it, even one of the owners is aware of it. Why wasn't it put to a stop then or at least mentioned hey, this could be an issue etc?

I think him pushing the issue (which is fine, we agreed to never do it again) was a direct retaliation towards me because there was an incident about a month ago that occurred between myself and a few players from another cc. They were flaming me on Yell, threating to DOX, insulting me etc in their clan chat, Church said "whats this all about lol ahh" and continued to let it go on while he is having a full conversation about Anime movies with another cc member. Even the moderator that shut it down was like "???" towards church's actions on all of that, Church was VERY offended when I said "The old Church would have shut that down in two seconds". Church's reply was "I want my moderators to handle these things". LAZY. That is not someone we want to have in a leadership position on PKH.

It is no secret that his work ethic is subpar, and his passion for PkHonor is lackluster. There are HUNGRY, DEDICATED moderators that would outwork and over fulfill his duties as an Admin.

As for Ryan, we've never seen eye to eye in the past 6-8 years. We're currently in the same CC and have had several conversations in discord, I've never had any issues with him except on view points. What I will say though, is that talking with that man you can hear the passion he has towards PkHonor. I feel terrible that he decided to resign. 99% of players don't understand and will never see the behind the scenes work he has done for PkHonor. I think its really unfortunate he does not receive credit or appreciation by anybody. HE IS THE GLUE THAT HAS BEEN KEEPING PKHONOR INTACT.

Jayden has A LOT on his plate right now, and I hope the staff team is able to give him support where it's needed and when it's needed. I hope that Mike and Rapsey can see the direction PkHonor is currently headed in, and get back to being more involved. I also hope that if Ryan ever decides to come back, that Jayden will offer him his rightful role back.

On a farewell note, I wanted to biasly mention that I think Hunkofman is the one of the greatest assets to fulfill Church's previous role. I also wanted to mention that I am officially quitting PkHonor. I know 99.9999% of the community will be ecstatic about that. I want to adopt Simon's (aiv89) playstyle by logging in once a year to just check up on it. I have had hardly any playtime in the past 3 months, partially because I am waiting for services to be done on my main account Ashton, but also I just haven't been able to find time. I do not plan on dedicating time to PkHonor until the direction of it is reversed and revitalized. It would be devastating to dedicate anymore time to this, then this ship just sinks.

Take Care.

Brant wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:04 am Remind me in like 3 hours to respond to this.

Hey, it’s 3 hours later.

Iron adam wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 5:04 am

Brant wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:04 am Remind me in like 3 hours to respond to this.

Hey, it’s 3 hours later.

Absolute chad

This is going to be mainly in response to what fe nis said.

Secondly, and equally as important, the input from ownership is lacking in abundance and needs fixing too, whether that comes in the form of mike and Rapsey actually (finally) being more vocal and sharing their views, opinions, and inputs on certain topics, or them assigning a specific person a specific role dedicated to community engagement and management - both options require their input, but the latter is far less work on their part and would only require them to be in contact with said community manager;

I don't necessarily think that Rapsey and Mike need to be vocal about things that are going about, but when it comes to things like what happened in this thread, I do think either one or both of them should give there feedback. From what I know, Rapsey would likely be the one to give input, especially when it comes to stepping a staff manager down/resigning.

To rewind to my first point, there's been absolute radio silence on the wiki and site issues from them for over a month now

I do find this very concerning as well. Granted, I haven't been on much since Leagues 4 came out on osrs, I have been still keeping up with what has been going on, especially on the development side of things. If anyone didn't read the year-end survey that Old School sent out, there was a section regarding Old School and private servers. (I couldn't find the questions that were asked about private servers, if I do, I'll make sure to edit them into this section) Essentially they were asking people about how people felt about OSRS hosting and allowing people to have custom servers. Yes, I bolded OSRS on purpose. This means that Jagex would own the private servers and they would host them themselves. If this were to pass and get implemented, you could kiss all private servers goodbye. Now I don't know if I am allowed to share this, but you guys wanted some transparency, around the time this survey came out, a lot of servers that I heard about received copyright strikes from Jagex, including us. Ironically, this was also the time the forums and wiki all went down. Coincidence, it's possible, but my thought is that this copyright forced us to take down our wiki in fear of a legal battle issued between us and Jagex. And with the wiki shut down, any ties to the website would be shut down/not work. Now this is all a theory that I had, and Rapsey probably knows what the real reason is, but until he comes out with it, this is what I know.

And as far as updates go I doubt I even need to go into any real detail - all we're asking for is the occasional forum post, the occasional discord teaser screenshot, let us know what's going on and what you're working on/planning on working on, keep us in the chain of information, because in the end as much as we might've all forgotten it, the community is what's keeping this server alive.

This type of shit makes my day as a player. The small updates/teasers get me more excited for updates to come. Sort of like what Thoby did on Discord in the Developer Blog section. I wasn't able to do this with my first update because me being a Developer was supposed to be more of a secret, but now that I have been exposed announced as a trial, I would love to release updates again just like Thoby did. I was already thinking about this before I was announced.

Third, and finally, development itself is great - between raj, brant, niels, lieven and thoby (come back to us, sweet prince) they've all pumped out more updates in the last few years than i could count in the entire period i've been playing this game, the issue is that when they develop something and it takes 6 months (i'm being incredibly generous there) to be reviewed, bughunted and subsequently released, i can hardly blame them for a lack of motivation or desire to continue working on the server, they NEED the ability to push updates themselves at this point, and if i had to nominate someone for the power and capacity to do so, i'd have it be raj - but by all means work that out for yourselves, any result is a good result at this point; even if it means having someone appointed a role of something along the lines of "head developer" for the sole purpose of pushing updates, or as stated in previous posts on the same topic, make it a group vote, have the developers able to push updates themselves provided they've all had access to, reviewed and vetted the code involved with said update in the same way price changes are pushed.

If you made it this far, congrats, and thanks for reading. This next part is gonna be long
First, Rest in peace Lieven Second, I wanna say the development team that we have right now is very good. Niels is very helpful to have since out of us, he is the most knowledgeable when it comes to pking. Raj is very technical and very knowledgeable about programming as a whole and is a great person to have when it comes to knowing how something is supposed to be done, and done right. Mike, obviously been working the longest, knows the source code inside and out. A lot of the code and base that we used, he either created or orchestrated. Because of this, he knows where to find things in the source code much faster than if we had to search on our own. Then I, out of pure luck, have learned a lot more about how the client and cache work and interact than I would like to say. Together, we can cover all the bases pretty well.

Now about the source, this has been a hot topic. It's not a secret or hard to figure out that our source code/client is old, and when I say old, I mean 2008 old. Due to it being this old, a lot, and I mean a lot of the code is either old or very outdated. Those who know anything about programming know the phrase 'spaghetti code.' This has been very noticeable, especially in the Client where I have been working since the last update I finished. I don't think it's a secret anymore, but I have been working on pointing our client to work with Runelite. This was before Leagues 4 came out on OSRS. Since then, I have been playing League 4. After the leagues ended. when I say I was burnt out of Runescape is an understatement. I tried to get back into developing, but I was not able to muster up the strength to. If you read earlier, League 4 ending was roughly the same time the year-end survey came out discussing private servers. Once I read that Jagex was potentially going to create there own private server hosting, I thought that was the end of private servers as a whole. That didn't help my motivation to get back into programming because then I was thinking, well why develop when all of my work is gonna go to waste? On top of all that, I will admit I have been playing a different server that has a lot more to offer than PKH does.

Pkhonor as a whole is multiple years behind other servers. I have been keeping track of all the things missing in pkhonor. If you want to view them, they are in the spoilers below

Skilling: Bosses: These are just the skilling and bossing, not to mention the other multiple QOLs such as the Cox updates, Combat achievements, Runelite, or the upcoming updates with Varlamore such as Colosseum. Now if we were to work on all of this at our pace currently, by the time we get all of this out, it'll be 2030, and we will still be miles behind other servers/OSRS. Also, for us to work on certain updates such as TOA or the DT2 bosses, we had to update our client to work with the OSRS new animation system, which we were lucky to find out how to get to work using some open-source clients. The only way we were able to get it to work was by using an open-source client that also had runelite. You might think, cool, we can knock out two birds with one stone, we got the new animation system and Runelite together, what's the issue? Well, remember how I told you our client was ancient? Yeah, for us to get our client and all of its features ported and working properly with our new client, we have had to port everything from our current client over into the new one. This is where the trouble lies, and what I have been doing since I want to say September. First, trying to port everything over is troublesome if not for everything in our client was Deobfuscated from a client from 2008. Because of this, a lot of variables/classes are not classified to what they are purposed for. If you want to see an example of what I mean, check below. These are variables in the item definition class. Now even after I figured out all the different variables trying to get Runelite to work with our client is a lot more complicated than you thought as well. Essentially, Runelite requires specific data from the Client, and most of that data we don't have. Because of this, I also had to refactor a lot of how the client functions as a whole. Take, for example, the menu actions that you see when you right-click an object, NPC, or player. If we wanted to get Runelite to work with them and add the Menu Entry Swapper plugin, we would have to rewrite how our menu entries are programmed at the base level for it to be compatible with Runelite. Next, trying to port over our Interfaces. To create an interface, we have to recreate them by hand. If you wanna know what I mean, here is an example of the Jewelry Box that I did with my last update. This was just one interface of 20 I did for the last update:
So now that all that was stated, you can see why development seems to be at a halt. Between all the rewriting code we've had to do, the fact a lot of the devs have felt burnt out, and the fact that there is a possibility that all of the work we are doing is going to get replaced if Jagex releases their hosting for private servers, the fact that we as a server are leagues behind other servers in terms of content, source, and features, even when updates are ready, it takes months before they are released, and the lack of player base all contribute to the lack of updates, at least for me. Until I know that everything with the server is gonna be alright, it's very hard for me to find the energy to develop.

Thanks for reading if you got this far. I know this was a lot, but I had to get this off my chest as I have been feeling like this for a while. I know this wasn't much on the topic but felt it needed to be said.

In spite of what Brant said, I find the code to be more or less workable, albeit a bit unhinged at times. The one thing that has pushed me to the limits of my knowledge is the Runelite integration, but Brant’s help on that was very big, and unless I’m missing something critical, I just need to do some cache reverse engineering for our custom animations for glacors and things like that, which is a hell of a pain, but manageable, considering I did it once already for all the non-custom animations. And we need to fix a lot of things that broke during Brant’s port but that also should be manageable.

On the Jagex replacing RSPS thing, that’s just never going to happen, unless they open source their client and server engines, which they will never do. You would never be able to replicate PkHonor on a Jagex hosted server without that kind of code access for all the custom stuff.

The server is definitely down bad right now, I am a pretty loyal and positive dude, and even I can’t really deny it, or defend it, given that help is being offered for free for the sake of the players. Between the staff manager situation needing a formal resolution, the wiki and mail servers being down, and the impossibility of updates while Mike is battling his demons (bless that man), the game is down horrendously. I know one of the owners has been keeping tabs on this thread and I will say it outright, most people familiar with the ownership see the lack of any comment at all to be very worrying.

Seeing Patel rising from the ashes might not be such a bad idea... Patel save us

Jumping bug wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:45 am Seeing Patel rising from the ashes might not be such a bad idea... Patel save us

You would (or maybe would not) be surprised how much he is saving the staff team in these trying times

Alright so,

As I said I'd give it 24 hours for people to respond and let it play out.

As of now this post is locked and will stay that way unless Rapsey or Mike wants to step in, Thank you all for reading and replying to this quite chaotic situation.

Post locked.