PkHonor

Nazuths wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:07 am There is also not really anyone to PK anymore either, the opposing clans don't enter the wild, neither do the HCIMs, and the few PvMers that are in wild risk a ring of wealth and black d'hides.

Nazuths wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:07 am

Elon musky wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:15 am We already have a control in effect where if a player is skilled enough, and gets his protection prayer up, he gets half TBed. This is in sense a reward for skillful gameplay. Being able to be unlimitedly TBed without a chance to utilize your skills to prevent a death completely defeats the purpose of having these skill based mechanics. Using work arounds to completely avoid things like TB timers shouldn’t be a thing; so introducing a game mechanic to remove the work arounds is a good idea to me.

This is hilarious, so putting on mage prayer is skillful, but d spear tbing is not skillful? In my entire PKing career on here, I have never been d spear tbed simply because the skill required for this is something my opponents don't have. Sure, people like me and @The underdog make it seem easy, but it's simply due to our high skill level. Pulling off the d spear re-TB seems to me, as you said, a reward for skillful gameplay.

But yeah, I don't really care anymore for these kinds of polls because the PvMers will always be the majority and they'll only ever vote for whatever benefits them, as shown by the Honor nerf. There is also not really anyone to PK anymore either, the opposing clans don't enter the wild, neither do the HCIMs, and the few PvMers that are in wild risk a ring of wealth and black d'hides.

I'd much rather see a thread on what we can do to make the Wilderness active again so the PvMers don't have to complain about getting killed by bored PKers.

Elon musky wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:34 pm But I would also like to bring up, these abused mechanics are being abused in conjunction with this bug also:
viewtopic.php?f=67&t=82419&p=729560&hilit=Skull#p728935

So in the unlucky situation that a player encounters a pking abusing the Dspear for infinite Tbs, and they decide to try and fight back, the player instantly becomes skulled do to this bug.

I don’t mean to try and shift the topic from its core to a side issue, but because they are often used in conjunction, I feel that it is necessary to atleast mention.

So we are at a point now that if a player decides to fight back, he gets skulled and risks all his items due to someone bug abusing, but if a player decided to not fight back and just try to escape, they can be unlimitedly TBed due to the other bug abuse. Now I may be biased because I am a victim of the bug abuse, but I also know that there will be some bias from those who abuse one or both the bugs.

Mike wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:10 pm

Elon musky wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:34 pm But I would also like to bring up, these abused mechanics are being abused in conjunction with this bug also:
viewtopic.php?f=67&t=82419&p=729560&hilit=Skull#p728935

So in the unlucky situation that a player encounters a pking abusing the Dspear for infinite Tbs, and they decide to try and fight back, the player instantly becomes skulled do to this bug.

I don’t mean to try and shift the topic from its core to a side issue, but because they are often used in conjunction, I feel that it is necessary to atleast mention.

So we are at a point now that if a player decides to fight back, he gets skulled and risks all his items due to someone bug abusing, but if a player decided to not fight back and just try to escape, they can be unlimitedly TBed due to the other bug abuse. Now I may be biased because I am a victim of the bug abuse, but I also know that there will be some bias from those who abuse one or both the bugs.

I have seen that report when it was posted and it's something that I'm currently working to address. I'm actually quite surprised nobody really seemed to notice (or care enough to report) before. I hope to have that particular bug fixed in the next server update, but it'll take some coding to get it done.

As for the TB and D spear issue, it looks like we're still at a bit of a stalemate. It won't be easy to find a common middle ground, since changing anything will always benefit either the PK'ers or the PVM'ers. I'll leave this up some more for further input before deciding on anything.

Elon musky wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:50 am The more I think about this topic, the easier it is to find all of the flaws.

Let’s take it back to the basics.

Why is there a teleport block timer?
-There is a teleport block timer because it isn’t suppose to be an infinite function. Otherwise a teleblock should only be able to be removed once the player leaves the wilderness.

Now that we know that the intent behind having a teleblock timer, we know that using any exploit to extend or avoid the timer should be considered bug abuse.

Is it a stretch? Well let’s look at an example:

Using Venom to avoid Glacytes. For those that are unfamiliar, you used to be able to Venom a Glacor, and simply wait for it to die from Venom, and the Glacytes would never spawn. Doing this on 10+ Glacors at a time was the fastest kill method.

So let’s pick it apart. In both situations we are using an intended mechanic (venom=dragon spear spec) in order to avoid an intended mechanic (Glacytes = Teleportation timer).

Now I would like someone to explain why one of these is bug abuse, and the other isn’t?

Isaac wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:43 pm

Elon musky wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:50 am The more I think about this topic, the easier it is to find all of the flaws.

Let’s take it back to the basics.

Why is there a teleport block timer?
-There is a teleport block timer because it isn’t suppose to be an infinite function. Otherwise a teleblock should only be able to be removed once the player leaves the wilderness.

Now that we know that the intent behind having a teleblock timer, we know that using any exploit to extend or avoid the timer should be considered bug abuse.

Is it a stretch? Well let’s look at an example:

Using Venom to avoid Glacytes. For those that are unfamiliar, you used to be able to Venom a Glacor, and simply wait for it to die from Venom, and the Glacytes would never spawn. Doing this on 10+ Glacors at a time was the fastest kill method.

So let’s pick it apart. In both situations we are using an intended mechanic (venom=dragon spear spec) in order to avoid an intended mechanic (Glacytes = Teleportation timer).

Now I would like someone to explain why one of these is bug abuse, and the other isn’t?

It's time has nothing to do with its game mechanic. I disagree with your view that 'it isn't supposed to be an infinite function'. The mechanic of Teleblock is stopping someone from teleporting, that's the mechanic right there. To say it's only supposed to last 5 minutes maximum as an intended feature is wrong.

You can use this mechanic to your advantage by co-ordinating the timings so that you can re-TB someone after the first one expires. I'm sorry you don't want to hear this but that's actually quite smart gameplay, and if a clan can pull that off over and over again then kudos to them.

I'd draw a comparison with prayer flicking. The mechanic of prayers is to prevent taking damage from a certain attack style, that's the mechanic. Someone figured out a way to use this mechanic to their advantage by prayer-flicking.

Venoming Glacors is a completely different ball game. I agree that the ability to venom an NPC is a mechanic in the game yes. But then you add the fact that Glacors are supposed to be immune to venom, also it's single combat and you're technically attacking multiple NPCs at the same time etc. That's where the abuse sets in for me. It's arguable, yes. Some could argue that using venom and sitting back is actually quite a smart idea, others would argue it's lazy and affects game integrity to allow such mechanics.

**To add, I think the main reason TBing becomes an annoying game mechanic is because of the ability to virtually never splash due to the OP but cheap af gear available in-game.

Isaac wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:43 pm I'd draw a comparison with prayer flicking. The mechanic of prayers is to prevent taking damage from a certain attack style, that's the mechanic. Someone figured out a way to use this mechanic to their advantage by prayer-flicking.

Stale fish1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:46 pm

Elon musky wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:31 pm I really think you missed the point. The ability to re-tb someone isn’t the issue. The ability to completely immobilize someone to the point they are defenseless against a TB for an infinite amount of time is the unintended feature. If the intent behind a teleportation block was to be able continuesly do it without interruption, then there wouldn’t be a timer.

If we can’t agree that ‘it isn’t suppose to be an infinite function’, then there is no point in going back and forth about the method of abuse. We just view the whole mechanic differently.