PkHonor

Ironman custom whips:

I was in big favor of changing it to something. I am one of those irons who hunted for a chaos whip and it was immensely annoying. I am in favor of a change but I don't like the aspect of trading in any whip + 5k credits for a guaranteed chaos/souls. I am still in favor of it being a reroll like mentioned in viewtopic.php?f=73&t=81303. Which could be argued that it is RNG stacked on RNG but if it were linked to 1-2k donor credits, 5b coins, and a whip then I really think it would be better than the one it was changed to in this update.

I do think that the alch value needed to be adjusted, like on other topics, pking gear shouldn't only be alched for 80m a piece but instead be sold to pk with.

You said in your topic that only rich players should feel incentive to purchase the 2k bank spaces but even purchasing an additional 200 spaces is "200-250b" which would be very useful on an iron but at the same time is stupid expensive on an iron. I suppose it is hard to figure out the middle ground here as a lot of irons have mains and rich ones at that, but it definitely hurts the ones that don't have rich mains. Even with my 2k+ hours, I still only have 50b(ish) in my refund. Sure I could probably liquidate my bank or other items but even then it would be pretty damn hard to even get close to +200 slots.

As for UIM, the gamemode doesn't even feel like it belongs in PkHonor if you were to compare it to OSRS. No stash units, death mechanics are different, going into the wild as a UIM is a nightmare (having only 1 world and having honors to track if you are in wild), etc. Personally, this is a game mode I will probably never play so I'm not sure if my opinion necessarily matters here.

Maybe this was all to help the server stay afloat and to increase donations across the board. I don't know. You guys know far more about it with all the data you have access too.

I mostly only play iron as well. My main is not rich by any means either.

All in all, I appreciate that you are willing to work with the players to find out the sweet spot.

I definitely think everyone agrees that it’s very Appreciated that you made this forums post to address issues/bugs people are having.

I think the biggest issues I’m personally having is.

A few of the meta money makers for new players or even vets who want to make spare GP by afking is dramatically effected by the alching. I think there is a lot of work to still be done in regards to getting prices fixed for alching.

I think changing alch values based off revs being so profitable by that sense is a mistake, I think the economy for valued items like runite ore and raw rocktails is completely destroyed and takes away potential money making methods for skillers and or new people/afkers. Now raw rocktails are a slim % of the value that they previously were. Even with keeping them able to sell to junk store for 150K ea was much better IMO.

I also seen a thread about having donor credits tradeable both ways which I agree should be a thing, if you transfer donor credits to your iron/HC\UIM you should have the option to transfer them back.

The last issue is being able to xfer wealth from your iron to your main is now scuffed. You could previously xfer from your iron to your main by dying to yourself and obtaining high alch value for the items lost, I would recommend putting the prices back to 60% of the min trade value for items lost on deaths by irons or changing it entirely to obtain the actual items dropped on death with the exception of custom whips.

To be honest I really like how a lot of this update was implemented. The custom whip was a great idea in my opinion for ironmen and I like the fact that you still had to have a custom to even do the trade. One thing as an ironman that was a bit rough was the alching update. While I think it could be good for the main game it has made it extremely difficult to obtain money as an iron especially if you're a new irons. Yes rev caves can help iron's obtain big amounts of cash but since the rev caves are heavily policed by pk clans it makes it nearly impossible to do revs especially as a new player who are not yet apart of clans. I wish the aching update didn't affect irons and maybe to void transferring between irons and mains make it so if a main kills their iron they get the alch price of the main game not the iron. Personally I'm a new iron and was about to max but don't have very much time to play to collect the items required for the very last quest so the 8b route was what I was going to do. Now I can't really. I also feel no need to alch anything because it won't do much for my cash stack. I also don't know how I'm gonna each comp my iron with the 200m con because money is hard for an iron already. I'm also kinda worried that this aching update might affect people deciding to make iron's because this makes getting status's extremely difficult.

alch values
Decoupling alch prices from trading prices is fair enough. Although, the rev cave example given seems to be the only case where this was really an issue. Would it have not been better to make changes to just the rev caves rather than across the entire game?

If reverting the update is not possible, then the best way to fix it is to manually adjust items alch values which need adjusting (such as the items you listed).


Something I don't think has been explained yet is the reason for the difference between high alch prices and junk store prices? If they are both decoupled from street prices, why are they not the same as eachother? With the current junk store prices being 60% of high alch prices, what actually is the purpose of the junk store? What incentive to people have to use it and therefore why does it exist?

If junk store prices and high alch prices were made to be the same, here are the pros and cons:

pros
•can sell all your unwanted items quickly
•large stacks of items such as pure essence can be sold quickly

cons
•large stacks of items such as pure essence can be sold quickly??




custom whips
While I don't agree with your opinion that custom whips being RNG based is not a good game mechanic, I can understand your point of view. However, you haven't just changed custom whips from being RNG based, you have made them significantly easier to obtain. I liked how custom whips were RNG based but I wouldn't have minded if they were simply changed to be less RNG based, but this isn't what has happened. Obtaining the best item for ironman (chaos whip) has changed from being 1/400 chance in elites to 1/50 chance in elites. It is now significantly easier to obtain this item. How can this be justified?

So now, after obtaining their first whip, all lategame ironman players will be faced with the decision of either trying their luck with a 1/400 chance, or paying the credits for their chaos whip. Is this really fair to make ironman decide this? Is this not literally p2w?

By definition, ironman mode requires players to be entirely self sufficient. But now, players can use their main account to fund their ironman to buy the best item in game (chaos whip). How can we still call it ironman mode?

For those on the aching issue, high volume items should never be able to be dumped into a store for anywhere close to the high alch price. The main point for this is because aching takes a lot more time then just dumping and going. With the old system this was not the case. With this new system, these high volume items are given an actual value besides there high alch value. Perhaps the high alch value should not have been tampered with and only the junk store value, but I'm curious as to where this will go to

Brant wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:54 am For those on the aching issue, high volume items should never be able to be dumped into a store for anywhere close to the high alch price. The main point for this is because aching takes a lot more time then just dumping and going. With the old system this was not the case. With this new system, these high volume items are given an actual value besides there high alch value. Perhaps the high alch value should not have been tampered with and only the junk store value, but I'm curious as to where this will go to

Can you be specific on what you mean by high volume items? Why should these not be okay to dump?

Alching only takes a lot more time if you are talking about 1000+ items. You can alch approximately 80 items per minute, so this isn't a long time for most pvm items.

Its flat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:05 am

Brant wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:54 am For those on the aching issue, high volume items should never be able to be dumped into a store for anywhere close to the high alch price. The main point for this is because aching takes a lot more time then just dumping and going. With the old system this was not the case. With this new system, these high volume items are given an actual value besides there high alch value. Perhaps the high alch value should not have been tampered with and only the junk store value, but I'm curious as to where this will go to

Can you be specific on what you mean by high volume items? Why should these not be okay to dump?

Alching only takes a lot more time if you are talking about 1000+ items. You can alch approximately 80 items per minute, so this isn't a long time for most pvm items.

You said it yourself. Anything that you get over 1000+ of I would consider high volume. Things like skilling supplies or food. One main example that comes to my mind that I just checked is pure essence. Before this update, they were just dumped into the junk store and it would just be that. Now they actually have a trade value. And if you want to say, but you can easily alch like 80+ items a minute, I dare you to high alch something like this. Just from doing casual gameplay and slayer, I have easily accumulated over 400k pure essence, this is about 83 hours or just aching, which would give you very little to no profit and to before selling them to the junk store would take 2 clicks and give you 80% of high alch value, plus the fact that you don't spend money on the runes saving you even more. For this, it pushes the more profitable way to sell it on the GE to people actually adds resources into the economy, which will probably lower the cost of the items in the long run, but will increase the accessibility to said items.

Edit: this update has no affect on 'high value items' such as gwd armor, nex armor, and most raid items, (only one I can think of is avernic since it was already a low traded item to begin with.

Brant wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:25 am

Its flat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:05 am

Brant wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:54 am For those on the aching issue, high volume items should never be able to be dumped into a store for anywhere close to the high alch price. The main point for this is because aching takes a lot more time then just dumping and going. With the old system this was not the case. With this new system, these high volume items are given an actual value besides there high alch value. Perhaps the high alch value should not have been tampered with and only the junk store value, but I'm curious as to where this will go to

Can you be specific on what you mean by high volume items? Why should these not be okay to dump?

Alching only takes a lot more time if you are talking about 1000+ items. You can alch approximately 80 items per minute, so this isn't a long time for most pvm items.

You said it yourself. Anything that you get over 1000+ of I would consider high value. Thinks like skilling supplies or food. One main example that comes to my mind that I just checked is pure essence. Before this update, they were just dumped into the junk store and it would just be that. Now they actually have a trade value. And if you want to say, but you can easily alch like 80+ items a minute, I dare you to high alch something like this. Just from doing casual gameplay and slayer, I have easily accumulated over 400k pure essence, this is about 83 hours or just aching, which would give you very little to no profit and to before selling them to the junk store would take 2 clicks and give you 80% of high alch value, plus the fact that you don't spend money on the runes saving you even more. For this, it pushes the more profitable way to sell it on the GE to people actually adds resources into the economy, which will probably lower the cost of the items in the long run, but will increase the accessibility to said items.

I feel like he was refencing items as tassets, Godswords, etc as "high value" not P ess..

Monys wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:38 am

Brant wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:25 am

Its flat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:05 am

Can you be specific on what you mean by high volume items? Why should these not be okay to dump?

Alching only takes a lot more time if you are talking about 1000+ items. You can alch approximately 80 items per minute, so this isn't a long time for most pvm items.

You said it yourself. Anything that you get over 1000+ of I would consider high value. Thinks like skilling supplies or food. One main example that comes to my mind that I just checked is pure essence. Before this update, they were just dumped into the junk store and it would just be that. Now they actually have a trade value. And if you want to say, but you can easily alch like 80+ items a minute, I dare you to high alch something like this. Just from doing casual gameplay and slayer, I have easily accumulated over 400k pure essence, this is about 83 hours or just aching, which would give you very little to no profit and to before selling them to the junk store would take 2 clicks and give you 80% of high alch value, plus the fact that you don't spend money on the runes saving you even more. For this, it pushes the more profitable way to sell it on the GE to people actually adds resources into the economy, which will probably lower the cost of the items in the long run, but will increase the accessibility to said items.

I feel like he was refencing items as tassets, Godswords, etc as "high value" not P ess..

That's my bad, I miss typed in my second post. I meant to type high volume which he was referring to when he posted

Brant wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:25 am

Its flat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:05 am

Brant wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:54 am For those on the aching issue, high volume items should never be able to be dumped into a store for anywhere close to the high alch price. The main point for this is because aching takes a lot more time then just dumping and going. With the old system this was not the case. With this new system, these high volume items are given an actual value besides there high alch value. Perhaps the high alch value should not have been tampered with and only the junk store value, but I'm curious as to where this will go to

Can you be specific on what you mean by high volume items? Why should these not be okay to dump?

Alching only takes a lot more time if you are talking about 1000+ items. You can alch approximately 80 items per minute, so this isn't a long time for most pvm items.

You said it yourself. Anything that you get over 1000+ of I would consider high value. Thinks like skilling supplies or food. One main example that comes to my mind that I just checked is pure essence. Before this update, they were just dumped into the junk store and it would just be that. Now they actually have a trade value. And if you want to say, but you can easily alch like 80+ items a minute, I dare you to high alch something like this. Just from doing casual gameplay and slayer, I have easily accumulated over 400k pure essence, this is about 83 hours or just aching, which would give you very little to no profit and to before selling them to the junk store would take 2 clicks and give you 80% of high alch value, plus the fact that you don't spend money on the runes saving you even more. For this, it pushes the more profitable way to sell it on the GE to people actually adds resources into the economy, which will probably lower the cost of the items in the long run, but will increase the accessibility to said items.

I'm glad you chose pure essence as an example, I think that's a perfect example. So let's say you have 400k pure essence, you're exactly right, there is no logical reason to try and alch these. So why should they have a higher alch value? No one is going to alch them anyway... So instead, what should happen is to set both the junk store value and the high alch value to an appropriate price which "pushes the more profitable way to sell it on the GE to people actually adds resources into the economy, which will probably lower the cost of the items in the long run, but will increase the accessibility to said items."

Remember that both junk store and alch value are both decoupled from street value. Now, there's nothing stopping the price from being set low enough to encourage the result you are wanting.

edit: I saw the typo and knew what you meant