Rule Discussion Thread #2

[Uim legolas]

My main question surrounding filters is what happens with the rules (and by extension, mod guidelines)?

Is it okay to say a bad word if there's a filter and the only real tocicity would've come with using that word? I'd say so. It's silly to get muted over something that gets filtered anyways, so it wouldn't need to be in the rules either.

If they still get muted even though the toxic parts were censored then that's pretty much admitting the filter doesn't really do anything.

If they do introduce such filter, it should obviously be something u can toggle on/off. Main point being protecting the more new and sensitive players. (As people said before: toggle it on for new accounts)

Pretty much an addition to the ignore list, to give players the option to enjoy the game with less toxicity/harrassment. It shouldn't change anything to the mod guidelines, since offensive language should still be punished the same way.

(I don't really think this is a must, but if it gets upvoted by 75% or more, why not?)

[Fungamer]

My main question surrounding filters is what happens with the rules (and by extension, mod guidelines)?

Is it okay to say a bad word if there's a filter and the only real tocicity would've come with using that word? I'd say so. It's silly to get muted over something that gets filtered anyways, so it wouldn't need to be in the rules either.

If they still get muted even though the toxic parts were censored then that's pretty much admitting the filter doesn't really do anything.

If they do introduce such filter, it should obviously be something u can toggle on/off. Main point being protecting the more new and sensitive players. (As people said before: toggle it on for new accounts)

Pretty much an addition to the ignore list, to give players the option to enjoy the game with less toxicity/harrassment. It shouldn't change anything to the mod guidelines, since offensive language should still be punished the same way.

(I don't really think this is a must, but if it gets upvoted by 75% or more, why not?)

See that's where I don't agree. Ignore list can help players after the fact. A filter would prevent the fact from happening. It'd be on by default. If you turn the filter off, then you're choosing to be able to see the bad words so then the blame is 100% on you if you get offended by seeing them. You should just turn it back on at that point.

So, what's the point of even having a rule stating "you cant say this word" if the people bothered by that word wont even see that you said it?? The whole point of having rules is to protect the community. Muting players for saying something that is filtered anyways is protecting no one. It'd be like muting a player who's in morph height in a secluded area & alone for saying "retard". No one was harmed. Obviously toxic behavior like loopholing the filter or using non-slurs to be insulting would still be punished. But why bother punishing for things that are already "dealt with" by the game? Sounds like a waste of time for staff members to punish for it once we get a filter & the person flaming says the exact things that the filter is... Filtering out.

I don't see the producers of TV shows getting punished for having vulgar language in a PG13 show if they bleep it out.

[Raj]

worth mentioning that the only players who will be truly effected by flaming enough to quit the server straight away are also people who won't have set a profanity filter. for everyone else, custom filters seems like a reasonable solution. basically just filter the 2 or 3 words we're all thinking of by default, and let people add others that they want to add. that's what i would do at least

also, even if you can string together a reasonable conversation where these words are used, i feel like supporting that is a minor gain whereas just filtering them all by default is a pretty large one, from a "reducing toxicity and retaining new players" standpoint

[Fungamer]

worth mentioning that the only players who will be truly effected by flaming enough to quit the server straight away are also people who won't have set a profanity filter.

It'd be on by default and they could always toggle it back on. It's on them for keeping it off. Toxicity that ruins the gameplay experience and causes players to quit goes beyond what a filter can do. Such toxicity is already against the rules (harassment rule, offensive language, ...) and they're quite clear on it too, although some finetuning could be required. This really does fall back to the staff team handing out harsher punishments to discourage this kind of behavior AND the community stepping up by reporting people.

@Stale fish mentioned to me that reporting users confidentially using the PkH Discord should be possible, which could be useful since not many players are familiar with or even willing to use the forums, so that could be worth looking into.

Although I'm mentioning Discord, I'm not a big fan of users PMing a mod screenshots through Discord becoming the standard. This decentralizes a lot of proof, leads to less oversight by their peers/higherups for individual staff members & encourages players to PM it to their favourite mod instead of leaving it up to the first mod who can handle the report. That'll just cause drama and more division IMO.

An editable filter would be nice but we have to keep our expectations realistic. The more features and little interfaces and interactions we ask for, the less likely any filter will get introduced at all.

[Will be ok2]

I think the clan advertising is fine as it is now and should be left alone. It’s rarely an issue and when it becomes an issue I think it gets handled by staff warning the clans.

Offensive language - I don’t think this one matters as much as it matters to maintain consistency, The greatest problem you’ll / we’ll have is that there will always be a level of biased within specific staff, and with the censorship increasing it gives the mods a much larger personal input on it which could be horrible. I think if the censorship increases (which I’m not opposed to) it should be a very clear outline given to all mods in regards to length of mute if needed etc.

[Thearlygamer]

As @Fungamer said, introduce a filter and leave it to the players if they want to have it on or off. Punish loop holers, and probably make a thread where players can add their input if any words phrases should be added.

However I do think staff should still intervene if a player is going too far or doing too much just for the sake of being vulgar. I don’t think we’d want a negative change in the pkh atmosphere where everyone is toxic for the sake of being toxic it reminds me of a teenager who learns a cuss word and says it all the time for no reason. Also I agree with @Ryan that it isn’t all on his staff team and that we as a community need to be a part of the change we want to see. Almost like turning over a new leaf, let the past be in the past and just move on from here on forward

[Ryan]

Okay, so from what I've gathered from the comments on this thread, we're okay with how we deal with clan advertisement at the moment, and with regards to offensive language, we need to be talking to players more, making punishments more consistent and perhaps look into a filtering system that ensures certain words aren't able to be used.

I'm going to close this thread for now and take this information on board.

Thanks everyone. Next thread will be out soon.