Magic accuracy in pvp.

[The underdog]

Ok..... so if all you want is equality (that’s what I got from reading the blabber) then just nerf Melee and Range accuracy? That will bring them all back in line and make Magic the best again.....

But I know you wouldn’t like that, because then it would be harder to kill PVMERs, you want it easier.

Edit: Buffing magic would only benefit the predator/prey relationship. It would make freezes more often, and damage output to go up if there is only one attacker. While in a pker vs pker scenario, it would equal out ANYWAYS. So it would only make sense to nerf the other 2 if you want a balanced gameplay instead of raising the damage output ceiling higher than it currently is which is already too high IMO.

Aka you didn't read. Nerfing melee and ranged is literally one of the options I gave multiple times on this thread and in the poll.

And instead of providing objective proof, you simply came up with excuses why you can’t provide objective proof. You can’t say something is unbalanced without proving it.

Just because we buffed melee and range compared to OSRS and left magic the same, how can you prove that we didn’t get the balance right while OSRS has it wrong?

Melee (99% of the time) does not immobilize people for 10 seconds. Range doesn’t either. Magic immobilizes and damages people.... that’s already an imbalance because it can do something that the other attack styles can’t do. Should it immobilize and do just as much damage as melee or range? I would argue it shouldn’t. So less accuracy and damage, but impairment attributes sound alike a fair balance to me.

Balance is about give and take.... do you wanna stop a person from running? Freeze them.... just Cmaul and range them for 20 wilderness levels and do more damage or use magic to freeze them, so they can inflict more damage overtime?

It's not objective proof what you are asking, it's a lot of effort making such a compilation and it proves absolutely nothing. Also I don't waste all my disk space with clips of failed attempts on killing players. Where's your proof of the opposite, you don't even pk or go wild. Whether or not you die in the wilderness won't be noticeably affected by this change. You're just here to start a yes no battle without good arguments so it depicts there being controversy. But it's just irrelevant. Also didn't bother to reply to your pker vs pker is equal anyway argument as I literally typed why it does matter in what you replied to. (can't rely on freeze so must protect melee etc) you also skipped my argument of magic being overpowered in the past due to a bug and that's why it was never buffed since it was strong already. So addressing that buf was a nerf to magic that's what I can say about your maybe we do it better than osrs argument. Our own situation changed without real discussion about it. So your give and take argument, take away magic strength so now give it back.

Magic immobilizes people if that's the effect you choose, it has compromises like damage and having to bring all magic equipment in the first place = less food = more risk. The normal spellbook doesn't do damage for freezes and the ancient spellbook doesn't have access to specialist spells etc. It's all balancing as old as Runescape how do you think it's balanced there. If magic does no damage at all ever do you still think that's fine? It just goes to show you're just bitching for the heck of it.

If all goes well (and the bosses agree), this will be included in an upcoming update. If it is deemed too powerful, it is something that will be re-adjusted.

So did the bosses not agree? Did it happen already? Pull request denied? An update yet to come?

[Uim elon]

Aka you didn't read. Nerfing melee and ranged is literally one of the options I gave multiple times on this thread and in the poll.

And instead of providing objective proof, you simply came up with excuses why you can’t provide objective proof. You can’t say something is unbalanced without proving it.

Just because we buffed melee and range compared to OSRS and left magic the same, how can you prove that we didn’t get the balance right while OSRS has it wrong?

Melee (99% of the time) does not immobilize people for 10 seconds. Range doesn’t either. Magic immobilizes and damages people.... that’s already an imbalance because it can do something that the other attack styles can’t do. Should it immobilize and do just as much damage as melee or range? I would argue it shouldn’t. So less accuracy and damage, but impairment attributes sound alike a fair balance to me.

Balance is about give and take.... do you wanna stop a person from running? Freeze them.... just Cmaul and range them for 20 wilderness levels and do more damage or use magic to freeze them, so they can inflict more damage overtime?

It's not objective proof what you are asking, it's a lot of effort making such a compilation and it proves absolutely nothing. Also I don't waste all my disk space with clips of failed attempts on killing players. Where's your proof of the opposite, you don't even pk or go wild. Whether or not you die in the wilderness won't be noticeably affected by this change. You're just here to start a yes no battle without good arguments so it depicts there being controversy. But it's just irrelevant. Also didn't bother to reply to your pker vs pker is equal anyway argument as I literally typed why it does matter in what you replied to. (can't rely on freeze so must protect melee etc) you also skipped my argument of magic being overpowered in the past due to a bug and that's why it was never buffed since it was strong already. So addressing that buf was a nerf to magic that's what I can say about your maybe we do it better than osrs argument. Our own situation changed without real discussion about it. So your give and take argument, take away magic strength so now give it back.

Magic immobilizes people if that's the effect you choose, it has compromises like damage and having to bring all magic equipment in the first place = less food = more risk. The normal spellbook doesn't do damage for freezes and the ancient spellbook doesn't have access to specialist spells etc. It's all balancing as old as Runescape how do you think it's balanced there. If magic does no damage at all ever do you still think that's fine? It just goes to show you're just bitching for the heck of it.

If all goes well (and the bosses agree), this will be included in an upcoming update. If it is deemed too powerful, it is something that will be re-adjusted.

So did the bosses not agree? Did it happen already? Pull request denied? An update yet to come?

Imagine crying about something being unbalanced without any proof, then telling some else to prove why it is balanced. It’s on you to prove the case you stated above. Instead you suck so bad that you just want damage output to be increased so you actually get a kill. That’s all this post is..... “Magic needs to do more damage so I can kill people while having 0 skill.”

And as for addressing your arguments, I have to first find validity in your argument before I decide whether or not to dispute it. Over half of the statements you make are baseless which require no real response.

Hopefully the development team sees through this failed suggestion.

[The underdog]

And instead of providing objective proof, you simply came up with excuses why you can’t provide objective proof. You can’t say something is unbalanced without proving it.

Just because we buffed melee and range compared to OSRS and left magic the same, how can you prove that we didn’t get the balance right while OSRS has it wrong?

Melee (99% of the time) does not immobilize people for 10 seconds. Range doesn’t either. Magic immobilizes and damages people.... that’s already an imbalance because it can do something that the other attack styles can’t do. Should it immobilize and do just as much damage as melee or range? I would argue it shouldn’t. So less accuracy and damage, but impairment attributes sound alike a fair balance to me.

Balance is about give and take.... do you wanna stop a person from running? Freeze them.... just Cmaul and range them for 20 wilderness levels and do more damage or use magic to freeze them, so they can inflict more damage overtime?

It's not objective proof what you are asking, it's a lot of effort making such a compilation and it proves absolutely nothing. Also I don't waste all my disk space with clips of failed attempts on killing players. Where's your proof of the opposite, you don't even pk or go wild. Whether or not you die in the wilderness won't be noticeably affected by this change. You're just here to start a yes no battle without good arguments so it depicts there being controversy. But it's just irrelevant. Also didn't bother to reply to your pker vs pker is equal anyway argument as I literally typed why it does matter in what you replied to. (can't rely on freeze so must protect melee etc) you also skipped my argument of magic being overpowered in the past due to a bug and that's why it was never buffed since it was strong already. So addressing that buf was a nerf to magic that's what I can say about your maybe we do it better than osrs argument. Our own situation changed without real discussion about it. So your give and take argument, take away magic strength so now give it back.

Magic immobilizes people if that's the effect you choose, it has compromises like damage and having to bring all magic equipment in the first place = less food = more risk. The normal spellbook doesn't do damage for freezes and the ancient spellbook doesn't have access to specialist spells etc. It's all balancing as old as Runescape how do you think it's balanced there. If magic does no damage at all ever do you still think that's fine? It just goes to show you're just bitching for the heck of it.

If all goes well (and the bosses agree), this will be included in an upcoming update. If it is deemed too powerful, it is something that will be re-adjusted.

So did the bosses not agree? Did it happen already? Pull request denied? An update yet to come?

Imagine crying about something being unbalanced without any proof, then telling some else to prove why it is balanced. It’s on you to prove the case you stated above. Instead you suck so bad that you just want damage output to be increased so you actually get a kill. That’s all this post is..... “Magic needs to do more damage so I can kill people while having 0 skill.”

And as for addressing your arguments, I have to first find validity in your argument before I decide whether or not to dispute it. Over half of the statements you make are baseless which require no real response.

Hopefully the development team sees through this failed suggestion.

What do you mean without any proof, apparently you can't comprehend anything in this thread. It doesn't involve you or affect you so don't act like your opinion on this is of pure wisdom. We got super lucky to hit a tb on you and it splashed, I know you're mad about it but you can't come here and saying half of everything I said is baseless. While all your arguments are baseless. As I've said you're just trying to cause controversy, all by yourself just because you're mad at me or something weird. You don't pk deep, don't pk edge and don't participate in tournaments. Don't even see you in safe pvp minigames.

You're saying your summary of my post is that I want magic to be no skill. Then again you didn't read shit. Heck pvmers that escape on the daily multiple times would agree magic is the weakest link of the combat triangle. But you encountered a pvp situation twice in the last year? Go ask other pkers for their opinion, I did ask around and pretty much pvpers across the board agree with me. We can always look at overpowered equipment or specific things that require adjustment of overpowered things. But the fundamentals are broken, can't you see that that is a problem? You've said that you can imagine what the problem is, the imbalance. And could see nerfing melee and ranged as an option. Then why suddenly you can't imagine the problem anymore when we'd make magic stronger. Makes no sense to me. Would you build a house on a foundation that's only 2/3 completed and then adjust the house itself to be level?

Read the entire thread again, get some experience in the recent pvp scene and then come back here to share your experiences. Participate in nh tourney while you're at it.
The poll is 20 in favor of change and 5 against a change at the moment. I'm not pulling something out of my ass here that only fits in my own imaginary world. I'm not even asking for a brainless buff, so if you're a pvmer that wants pkers nerfed you should vote option 3. And it's a discussion thread not a yes no suggestion so you can also give arguments as to why you think an option is the correct one. I think I provided my arguments for my case, but you can vote for any option for your own reasons. When the general consensus is pointing to a change and you're convinced of your different opinion to be the better option. Then apparently you have to make a proper case for what you think is the right path and not just say no I don't agree.

[Raj]

Magic doesn't hit hard enough.

However, the passive effects of blood and ice barrage balance that.

I also might be wrong cause it was a while ago, but I'm pretty sure I read that range and melee have a 15% buff to accuracy that magic doesn't have. Those should be fixed, either by buffing mage accuracy by 15% (personally recommend or everyone will cry and it'll be justified) or nerfing range and melee (would not recommend). Again, I'm like 50% sure the obvious issue was mage when that post was made but if it was one of the other styles then my bad and disregard.

Also, accuracy is a non-linear function. The gains become smaller once you have a higher accuracy stat. Seeing a miniscule gain from using 3a druidic is completely normal.

[The underdog]

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=78878

This thread has all the information you need to get in the technical details of it all. If you'd need that to form your opinion. I don't think running the maths can really form your opinion on how the combat system feels though.

Okay so, funny thing is. The accuracy formulas are perfect. 100% the same as OSRS' formula. Like, I tested it against all formulas I was able to find, but they're just the same. Every multiplication, every check, every addition. They all give exactly the same results. I even went ahead and used DPS calculators to get accuracy % and compared those with our %.

So the inaccuracy most likely has to do with everyone being level 99 defence, boosted to 125, swimming in defensive equipment. But at the end of the day, the formula's are 100% like they should be. Well, almost like they should be. As a sharp few of you might've noticed, there's only 1 difference: we subtract 35% of the melee and ranged defence in PvP combat (coloured 'em for ya).

Why, you ask? Well, this is something that was changed around by Mike because the community felt like they were too inaccurate. Mage doesn't get this reduction, so that explains why so many players were experiencing inaccurate magic spells. However, 'fixing' the combat formula would mean we would only hit more 0's.

So this is primarely a call to the PvP-community on what to do. Add the reduction to mage aswell? Remove the reductions? What do you think?

I'd love to hear about it! So feel free to let me know what you think.

Like, it's not even the question I'm posing myself to magically end all pvmers their lives so I can sleep at night. I'd be suggesting the new Volatile nightmare staff or whatever to slap pvmers with 80 magic hits. I could also attack the item balance where on osrs a tsotd is 7m and a karils top is 2.7m and here it's 7b tsotd and 50-200m karils top. But we need to settle these fundamentals first before we can discuss these things. And like if magic is buffed like suggested it will mean we don't really have to adress the super cheap magic defensive equipment because it's already taken into account then.

The Pvp-community should have discussed this right away but with only 7 replies it just got forgotten about. But I value this issue because I'm one of the most active pkers on this game so I'm sparking the discussion again with this thread which has a poll added to it to provoke more interest.

[Korasi2]

if u ask me magic is already to strong in pvp

[Uim elon]

It's not objective proof what you are asking, it's a lot of effort making such a compilation and it proves absolutely nothing. Also I don't waste all my disk space with clips of failed attempts on killing players. Where's your proof of the opposite, you don't even pk or go wild. Whether or not you die in the wilderness won't be noticeably affected by this change. You're just here to start a yes no battle without good arguments so it depicts there being controversy. But it's just irrelevant. Also didn't bother to reply to your pker vs pker is equal anyway argument as I literally typed why it does matter in what you replied to. (can't rely on freeze so must protect melee etc) you also skipped my argument of magic being overpowered in the past due to a bug and that's why it was never buffed since it was strong already. So addressing that buf was a nerf to magic that's what I can say about your maybe we do it better than osrs argument. Our own situation changed without real discussion about it. So your give and take argument, take away magic strength so now give it back.

Magic immobilizes people if that's the effect you choose, it has compromises like damage and having to bring all magic equipment in the first place = less food = more risk. The normal spellbook doesn't do damage for freezes and the ancient spellbook doesn't have access to specialist spells etc. It's all balancing as old as Runescape how do you think it's balanced there. If magic does no damage at all ever do you still think that's fine? It just goes to show you're just bitching for the heck of it.



So did the bosses not agree? Did it happen already? Pull request denied? An update yet to come?

Imagine crying about something being unbalanced without any proof, then telling some else to prove why it is balanced. It’s on you to prove the case you stated above. Instead you suck so bad that you just want damage output to be increased so you actually get a kill. That’s all this post is..... “Magic needs to do more damage so I can kill people while having 0 skill.”

And as for addressing your arguments, I have to first find validity in your argument before I decide whether or not to dispute it. Over half of the statements you make are baseless which require no real response.

Hopefully the development team sees through this failed suggestion.

What do you mean without any proof, apparently you can't comprehend anything in this thread. It doesn't involve you or affect you so don't act like your opinion on this is of pure wisdom. We got super lucky to hit a tb on you and it splashed, I know you're mad about it but you can't come here and saying half of everything I said is baseless. While all your arguments are baseless. As I've said you're just trying to cause controversy, all by yourself just because you're mad at me or something weird. You don't pk deep, don't pk edge and don't participate in tournaments. Don't even see you in safe pvp minigames.

You're saying your summary of my post is that I want magic to be no skill. Then again you didn't read shit. Heck pvmers that escape on the daily multiple times would agree magic is the weakest link of the combat triangle. But you encountered a pvp situation twice in the last year? Go ask other pkers for their opinion, I did ask around and pretty much pvpers across the board agree with me. We can always look at overpowered equipment or specific things that require adjustment of overpowered things. But the fundamentals are broken, can't you see that that is a problem? You've said that you can imagine what the problem is, the imbalance. And could see nerfing melee and ranged as an option. Then why suddenly you can't imagine the problem anymore when we'd make magic stronger. Makes no sense to me. Would you build a house on a foundation that's only 2/3 completed and then adjust the house itself to be level?

Read the entire thread again, get some experience in the recent pvp scene and then come back here to share your experiences. Participate in nh tourney while you're at it.
The poll is 20 in favor of change and 5 against a change at the moment. I'm not pulling something out of my ass here that only fits in my own imaginary world. I'm not even asking for a brainless buff, so if you're a pvmer that wants pkers nerfed you should vote option 3. And it's a discussion thread not a yes no suggestion so you can also give arguments as to why you think an option is the correct one. I think I provided my arguments for my case, but you can vote for any option for your own reasons. When the general consensus is pointing to a change and you're convinced of your different opinion to be the better option. Then apparently you have to make a proper case for what you think is the right path and not just say no I don't agree.

Super mad that I got a TB splashed on me. God I wish it landed.

I haven’t ever pked and I never will, yet I cleaned you for hundreds of bills on my main. But ok.
I can’t keep going back and forth with you. This will never happen so it doesn’t benefit me in anyways to continue trying to explain it to you.

[The underdog]

Read my last post with the thread that comes with it. Not that you'll understand any of it. You're mad that you got tb chanced in the first place.

Why will it never happen, the same thing happened for melee.
Why will it never happen, the same thing happened for ranged.
Why will it never happen, it's literally unbalanced now making it an even better case than for Melee and Ranged in the past.

Would you agree with the buff not counting for teleblock? If that's your concern. We already had that part of the conversation before. You also came here suggesting more alien to runescape mechanics in the process. Just do yourself and everyone a favor, don't enter the damn wilderness EVER on your hcim. 0% chance one of my evil magic spells will ever be cast upon you. You can go for 46b xp without ever going there. Apply for staff and bot on mod height to be on the safe side. Just don't make such a big deal about this one if it doesn't have to ever affect you at all. Do you think that couple % difference in magic accuracy would matter more than being a pain in the butt making me check the wilderness for you once more than I planned to do? Like 2x 50% tb chance or 1x 55% isn't a good trade.

[Uim elon]

Read my last post with the thread that comes with it. Not that you'll understand any of it. You're mad that you got tb chanced in the first place.

Why will it never happen, the same thing happened for melee.
Why will it never happen, the same thing happened for ranged.
Why will it never happen, it's literally unbalanced now making it an even better case than for Melee and Ranged in the past.

Would you agree with the buff not counting for teleblock? If that's your concern. We already had that part of the conversation before. You also came here suggesting more alien to runescape mechanics in the process. Just do yourself and everyone a favor, don't enter the damn wilderness EVER on your hcim. 0% chance one of my evil magic spells will ever be cast upon you. You can go for 46b xp without ever going there. Apply for staff and bot on mod height to be on the safe side. Just don't make such a big deal about this one if it doesn't have to ever affect you at all. Do you think that couple % difference in magic accuracy would matter more than being a pain in the butt making me check the wilderness for you once more than I planned to do? Like 2x 50% tb chance or 1x 55% isn't a good trade.

Big mad

[Thearlygamer]

cba to read 5 pages of nerd mumbo jumbo, but lets fix the bug that pkers abuse with ice baragging someone instantly first before we try and make magic more powerful l0l